[Gsuscsus]

I am very new to programming and am also a student and I agree completely with not giving out code. What I really want from this site when I post is for suggestions on what i can do. I really do want to learn because in real life answers are not just given to you. So please don't just assume that because i am posting my code and asking for help that I am looking for the answer. Just give me a suggestion and I will go from there. It also should be pretty easy to tell the difference from those of us that really want to learn and those that just want the answer.

[Amadeus]

It is indeed...and good for you.

[ludjer]

danzar, on 14 Dec, 2008 - 03:18 PM, said:

I personally think books can take you a long ways, but not all the way. there is nothing that can better teach you then a working example that is fully worked though to the end. This type of things are usually only in a class or work area.

People usually get stuck on the simple things more so than the harder logic. This is where asking question in forums and such are very important. I personally read almost every post on the language(C#) i am trying to learn because there might be something i learn from that post and that's why i am here.

My reason for posting is this, I know there are allot students(We are all students, no one knows it all) that post wanting the complete code without trying at it. I can see why allot of more advanced codes get mad at these type of people. Just reminder there are allot that are trying hard to learn that just need simple help to get over a hump.



FYI: I am not a student in any college just someone that loves to code and likes to learn new things.

well said!

[Nykc]

We should move this to the Corner Cube - this turned into an interesting discussion.

From what I learned in school was mere basics that do not help you much in the real world. Everything else I know was and is self taught from here on out.

[modi123_1]

Am I the only person who views the silver lining? The more kids churned out who got their answers off the internet or cheated in some other format means job security for me?

[BigAnt]

Quote

Am I the only person who views the silver lining? The more kids churned out who got their answers off the internet or cheated in some other format means job security for me?

Maybe, but if you get stuck on a team with them then it could mean more work for you, or less job security if the team doesn't get the job done.

[JackOfAllTrades]

modi, that's an upside, of course, but the lining's not as silver as it may appear at first glance.

The first thing to remember is that the person that made the hiring decision is likely going to be loathe to admit the mistake and cut the team's losses. In my experience, companies aren't as impersonal and quick to fire as one may be led to believe. That means someone senior gets to be in the position of "mentoring" this cheater, which not only detracts from that person's production -- as well as the team's -- but it also often takes a toll on the senior member's sanity. Being constantly interrupted to look at someone else's code when it's not working and they haven't the faintest idea how to debug it is a bitch.

Second, once this team member has been ensconced in their position, the havoc they can wreak can be astonishing. When you're in a final push out the door, do you want to be the one that has to go in and fix all the hellish code this incompetent has brought to the party at 3AM the day of the release to either QA or -- Og forbid -- the public?

EDIT: Or, what BigAnt said far more concisely

This post has been edited by JackOfAllTrades: 15 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

[5thWall]

On the subject of teachers: Books are nice, but when I was learning I could not get started with just a book. I checked out almost every book on BASIC in the library, I could tell you most of the keywords and what they did. I could not, however, combine those into something like a cohesive program. Even a simple one. It didn't matter how much example code I looked through.

It wasn't till I took my first programming course in college that it finally clicked. We had an awesome professor who really knows his stuff and explained it well enough for me to bounce off on my own. Now I usually go to a book or the Internet before asking someone. But if it weren't for that class and that professor, I might be still struggling to understand the example code in a book.

[Coruskane]

there is a strong argument that school is for teaching, university is for study/research. If you need elementary teaching then you probably should take a foundation course. Of course, skilled and experienced professors can provide advanced help, but it should not be a given.

At my university, at least, the entire course is self-taught, with the addition of some lectures, but there are frequent discussions with a professor to develop concepts beyond the course syllabus. (note I am not reading a science discipline, so I do have excuses for my computer illiteracy )

This post has been edited by Coruskane: 16 December 2008 - 07:41 PM

[no2pencil]

peachie, on 14 Dec, 2008 - 12:17 PM, said:

What if someone has the desire to learn programming but doesn't know how to program because their teacher never provides any support?

Wait until you (or they) get a job in the real world. No hand holding allowed. It's best to cut the umbilical cord early.

[Programmist]

peachie, on 14 Dec, 2008 - 11:17 AM, said:

What if someone has the desire to learn programming but doesn't know how to program because their teacher never provides any support? How can someone learn to be good at programming by teaching themselves?

The best programmers are not made by universities or classes. That's not to say they can't benefit greatly from school, but they are the type of people who are resourceful and learn early to help themselves. If college is your first experience with programming (assuming you had the opportunity before, but just never tried) then you are probably not one of these people. Don't fret though. I'm sure you can find one of them to help you.

[seriousazn]

haha very true these students deserve to fail xD

//steps to sucess
#include<brain>

using hard work, logic

int process( int facts )

int main {

cin >> knowledge;

cout << questions;

while ( questions != answered ) {

cin >> facts; 

process( facts );

}

return sucess;
}

haha this is lame, but hopefully you get it =] took like a min to make this up

[Valek]

Programmist, on 16 Dec, 2008 - 11:39 PM, said:

peachie, on 14 Dec, 2008 - 11:17 AM, said:

What if someone has the desire to learn programming but doesn't know how to program because their teacher never provides any support? How can someone learn to be good at programming by teaching themselves?

The best programmers are not made by universities or classes. That's not to say they can't benefit greatly from school, but they are the type of people who are resourceful and learn early to help themselves. If college is your first experience with programming (assuming you had the opportunity before, but just never tried) then you are probably not one of these people. Don't fret though. I'm sure you can find one of them to help you.

I have to say I completely agree with this assessment. It's basically what I was going to post until I read it, so I've quoted it to affirm my agreement on it

[Gloin]

Personally I would never hire a guy who didn't have a degree from university.
I would also like to add that I never had a bad teacher. If I ever failed a subject it was likely because I didn't put enough effort into it. Some people just seem to think they're still in elementary school and can go home and relax after lecture. Students reading computer science are expected to spend minimum 2 hours per day and subject (2 subjects) on self-studies (please, no stupid comments on this one). That's 28+ hours per week. Most people don't and then they wonder why they fail.