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#1 robarb  Icon User is offline

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Wireless Network

Posted 10 March 2004 - 08:25 PM

I'm not really sure if this is a hardware of networking question, so if this is not appropriate, administrators please move it accordingly. Ok, so we recently set up a wireless network with our new cable connection, well semi-wireless, as i have a rj-45 cable going straight to my card from the router, and another one wireless... my dad's Vaio. He's concerned with security, being that he does a lot of bank work over this cable connection. I don't see the threat, but he nevertheless wants some kind of encryption for the wireless signal. I'm not sure at all if it's got something integrated already (yea, i'm not the authority on wireless technology, as I am sure is extremely evident), so I was wondering if someone knowledegable on the subject would be so kind as to point me in the right direction as to what measures to take. I should mention that both the wireless card and the router are by netgear. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help an old man out.

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Replies To: Wireless Network

#2 cyberscribe  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 10 March 2004 - 09:57 PM

Yes, you want encryption, and yes it is (usually) built in to (modern) wireless routers. But it is not activated by default. You need to enter a WEP encryption key in the router and in every wireless device that uses the router. Most routers can be administered by browsing to their network interface, usually something like:

http://10.0.0.1

or

http://192.168.0.1

by default. Check your manual. It shouldn't be all that hard these days to set up WEP encryption.
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#3 MarkoDaGeek  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 11 March 2004 - 09:56 AM

its SUPER easy to break WEP though, I have software that can crack it in a matter of a couple hours. The ultimate security is WEP AND MAC address filtering, then only the computers with the correct MAC address can use the wireless network, and MAC address filtering is nearly impossable to get around. I would know, I do a lot of War Driving ;)

The fallback: You have to know how to configure MAC Address filtering on your router and you have to add any new computers you want to be able to access the network. but all of that is not that hard to do.
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#4 MarkoDaGeek  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 11 March 2004 - 10:00 AM

Oh also, if you have a Linksys router, everyone knows that the default admin login is admin, admin, so make sure to change your user name and password otherwise you will have people changing your router configuration, it's also a good idea to change your router's name, do it right the first time, make your network secure...
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#5 mi6  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:31 PM

MarkoDaGeek, on Mar 11 2004, 09:56 AM, said:

its SUPER easy to break WEP though, I have software that can crack it in a matter of a couple hours.

Not to argue but I have tried to break my own WEP 40 and 128 bit keys and it takes far longer than a couple hours to grab enough packets for AirSnort to crack it.

On topic: WEP is old technology for 802.11a/b. 802.11g uses WPA Wi-Fi (Protected Access) which is not (atm) as easy to crack as WEP. Since you weren't specific with which protocol you are using I thought I would add that.

If your dad is concerned about his banking security let him know that even if someone cracks your WEP key they haven't cracked your SSL encryption. So it would be no different than someone running a packet sniffer on your network, which you are susceptible to atm.

Use every precaution you can. But remember that if someone wants to take the time to get in, they will.

This post has been edited by mi6: 14 March 2004 - 10:04 PM

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#6 MarkoDaGeek  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 12 March 2004 - 10:07 AM

mi6, on Mar 11 2004, 01:31 PM, said:

MarkoDaGeek, on Mar 11 2004, 09:56 AM, said:

its SUPER easy to break WEP though, I have software that can crack it in a matter of a couple hours.

Not to argue but I have tried to break my own WEP 64 and 128 bit keys and it takes far longer than a couple hours to grab enough packets for AirSnort to crack it.

Very true for a home network it could take days, but with a corporate or school network, with all the packets being sent, it takes A LOT less time, also there are better programs then AirSnort for cracking WEP.

http://thebroken.org , Ill be featuring this site as a member pick here on DIC this weekend, AWESOME resource for both learning how to War Drive / Hack / Crack whatever, and learning how to protect yourself.

The bottom line is, your not Novell, your not Western Union, your not Wells Fargo or AT&T, noone is going to want to bother taking the time and dedication to crack your network so much as they could see your family's banking information and actually use that information for deviant purposes.
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#7 mi6  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 12 March 2004 - 02:20 PM

Better than AirSnort eh? I would be interested in hearing about why it is better. It must be that the software you use is faster at cracking WEP because 2 hours is a phenomenally low amount of time in my experience, Home/Corporate/whatever network. In fact I am going to have to test this now and transfer some ISO's across my WLAN to see how long it takes to grab enough packets.

the broken..... :rolleyes: phfft
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#8 RobotChicken73  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 28 February 2006 - 01:58 AM

MarkoDaGeek, on 11 Mar, 2004 - 10:53 AM, said:

its SUPER easy to break WEP though, I have software that can crack it in a matter of a couple hours. The ultimate security is WEP AND MAC address filtering, then only the computers with the correct MAC address can use the wireless network, and MAC address filtering is nearly impossable to get around. I would know, I do a lot of War Driving ;)

The fallback: You have to know how to configure MAC Address filtering on your router and you have to add any new computers you want to be able to access the network. but all of that is not that hard to do.

I'd be very interesting in aquiring the software you mentioned. If you can send the information to fins_1973@yahoo.com I would really appreciate it.
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#9 Nova Dragoon  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:33 AM

software is commonly available under *nix systems it is called aircrack.

Also wep + mac filtering is not the ulimate, if people are still reading this. That is equally easily broken. Only benifit using mac filtering is that you cant get onto the network untill you watch someone else get on the network and use thier mac.


My best advice for secure wireless networks is
WPA + Mac Filtering + Radius + VPN + hardcore router and firewall
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#10 Thorian  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:27 PM

I will raise this the most secure wireless is to not use it at all and run cat 5
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#11 Piperlester  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:38 PM

Nova Dragoon, on 28 Feb, 2006 - 11:30 AM, said:

My best advice for secure wireless networks is
WPA + Mac Filtering + Radius + VPN + hardcore router and firewall

OOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooverkill.

Use WPA with MAC Filtering, CHANGE the SSID(please, if you want this to be secure). Don't use anything 'specific' to who you are/where you live.

I don't think the VPN is required, they're a major pain-in-the-arse with some routers.

A hardcore router isn't necessary, Radius... up to you. A firewall, it's always nice, but you don't need it. Remember, an intrusion isn't coming from OUTSIDE your network, it will come _inside_. A firewall (depending whether it's hardware/software) won't make a spit of difference, if you'll be configuring the network so that all computers can access network resources, you'd need to set each computer with a static IP. I would suggest this, rather then enabling DHCP on the router. It's alot easier to get into a network that goes "Hey dude, here's an IP that's not in use".

If you want a software firewall, AND run file/resource sharing on your computers, then just open the IPs/Ports (on the firewall) that you want on the network.

If you have a hardware firewall (I.e. a linux box w/IPCHAINS or IPTABLES), which I don't suggest unless you are uber comfortable with Linux and networking, I would just run a generic chain/table firewall entry that redirects all IPs without any current firewall entries into oblivion. Then, setup permissions for the computers on the internal network.

Clear as mud? Good stuff.

Ask away if ya need.
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#12 MarkoDaGeek  Icon User is offline

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Re: Wireless Network

Posted 10 March 2006 - 07:50 PM

Nova Dragoon, on 28 Feb, 2006 - 10:30 AM, said:

Also wep + mac filtering is not the ulimate, if people are still reading this. That is equally easily broken.

Yeah, back in 2004 that may have been a solid security solution but these days that kind of security is hardly good enough as a bare minimum if your concerned about a real threat.

But overall just as before Online banking and such even on open networks is generally safe since those kind of websites use SSL which is still solid security. But that would ONLY apply to SSL secured traffic which most isn't...
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