[coden4fun]

2 Types of Programmers blog

I ask which one are you?

[Raynes]

I'm one of the "Alpha" programmers. Refer to signature.

[coden4fun]

Clojure...

Nice!

I'm going to get started

[Raynes]

Did I just get someone interested in Clojure? Shit, I'm getting better at this.

[baavgai]

Alpha. Just as anyone on this site who is excited about programming. The transients who just want to survive the class aren't. I prefer "programs for fun." Sounds less arrogant, still gets you funny looks.

It's not just programming, though. There are alpha non programming IT geeks. Guys who run networks, play with the latest toys, are jazzed to virtualize their network architecture, or etc. It's really comes down to if you work with computers for fun or just profit.

All my programmers now are the 80%. They can do the work, but aren't real interested in tweaking it. We had an alpha guy here for a bit, but he failed the drug test.

I have a standard interview question that immediately find the type the applicant is; though it's likely you can spot it in under a minute. "What languages have you played with that aren't on this resume? No, not work stuff, anything. Python, a google widget. Every hear of Erlang? Installed Linux? Tried GIT? Contributed to open source?"

It's pretty easy to spot an alpha programmer; the trick is hiring them.

[coden4fun]

baavgai, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 03:36 AM, said:

Alpha. Just as anyone on this site who is excited about programming. The transients who just want to survive the class aren't. I prefer "programs for fun." Sounds less arrogant, still gets you funny looks.

It's not just programming, though. There are alpha non programming IT geeks. Guys who run networks, play with the latest toys, are jazzed to virtualize their network architecture, or etc. It's really comes down to if you work with computers for fun or just profit.

All my programmers now are the 80%. They can do the work, but aren't real interested in tweaking it. We had an alpha guy here for a bit, but he failed the drug test.

I have a standard interview question that immediately find the type the applicant is; though it's likely you can spot it in under a minute. "What languages have you played with that aren't on this resume? No, not work stuff, anything. Python, a google widget. Every hear of Erlang? Installed Linux? Tried GIT? Contributed to open source?"

It's pretty easy to spot an alpha programmer; the trick is hiring them.

Very well stated sir. What business do you own, and if I may ask where are you'll located?

[KYA]

I don't agree with this article's assessment. You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home. That's total bullshit. All this article does is ignite the language war, again...It brings up the OS war...again. How original.

Any true alpha will see this article for what it is, a rehash on the age old truth that those who are proactive and are truly interested in their craft will be the best. True in any industry in any time. The article does a ridiculous amount of name dropping, only to eventually say that the other 80% only learns enough to get by. What if they learned just enough lisp or Linux to "get by"? That wasn't covered.

Don't take that blog post for the gospel. It's not.

[OliveOyl3471]

I think I'm part of the 20%.

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 17 March 2009 - 07:02 AM

[LaFayette]

Quote

I don't agree with this article's assessment. You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home. That's total bullshit. All this article does is ignite the language war, again...It brings up the OS war...again. How original.

You should probably read what the author of the article says and not only what he quotes. Or, read to article from where the quotes are taken and notice the disclaimer.

Anyway, anybody here reading this can rest assure that they are among the "20%" by definition!

[coden4fun]

KYA, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 05:58 AM, said:

I don't agree with this article's assessment. You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home. That's total bullshit. All this article does is ignite the language war, again...It brings up the OS war...again. How original.

How can you consider yourself to be an alpha by not trying out new technology ? You've misinterpreted the main point the article overall was clarifying, and made a great statement in doing so. You don't have to play around with lisp or linux it's the fact that you're pushing yourself, learning new technologies, and being able to evaluate and use new technologies when needed, and not just learn what is needed to get by a 9-5 job.

Quote

Any true alpha will see this article for what it is, a rehash on the age old truth that those who are proactive and are truly interested in their craft will be the best. True in any industry in any time.

Yes, I would agree, but then what made you say the above or below statement?

Quote

The article does a ridiculous amount of name dropping, only to eventually say that the other 80% only learns enough to get by. What if they learned just enough lisp or Linux to "get by"? That wasn't covered.

Don't take that blog post for the gospel. It's not.

No no the point isn't learning enough lisp, or haskell, or python to "get by", but to be the one who is continuously, passionately curious about all forms of computer science, and will continue to learn whatever language hatches their curiosity to run free and have no true definition of time, work, play and will not take any breaks to truly be the an admired programmer by their peers, for their desire is to know as much as they can about programming, and they worry not about their wallets.

[baavgai]

coden4fun, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 05:45 AM, said:

What business do you own, and if I may ask where are you'll located?

I'm merely a happy cog, actually. I have a say in technical hires, but we don't hire that often. Every time we've put out the call, all we've gotten are career programmers, but not really inspired ones. In the end, you have to opt for experience, current skill set, and the likelihood they'll be able to pick up a new skill set.

I had one guy I liked who was just out of school and had taught himself some side language or another. The powers that be preferred experience to enthusiasm and also feared he was a flight risk.

I work for the state and we ain't hiring any time soon, I'm afraid.

KYA, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 07:58 AM, said:

You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home.

I didn't really get that from the article. It was using less commercial alternatives as example of spotting the "players." I don't think using X is requirement. Rather, that you're enthusiastic enough about what's out there that you know that X exists. If you're Microsoft oriented, have you played with LINQ or even generics. PowerShell? (Quite fun, btw.) Do the new toys excite you or fill you with despair of another thing to learn?

There's a followup article that attempts to clarify this. "Thus, if you read the article, you are most assuredly in the twenty percent category."

[gregwhitworth]

@coden4fun

Quote

No no the point isn't learning enough lisp, or haskell, or python to "get by", but to be the one who is continuously, passionately curious about all forms of computer science, and will continue to learn whatever language hatches their curiosity to run free and have no true definition of time, work, play and will not take any breaks to truly be the an admired programmer by their peers, for their desire is to know as much as they can about programming, and they worry not about their wallets.

I'm glad that you said that, because at the end of the article I was like, shoot I need a third category. I don't create my own Linux or Windows based applications, but I program all day on other people's websites, then I come home and program on my own projects to further my development and have fun while doing it. So I would say that there needs to be several levels. But it was still a decent read.

--

Greg

[coden4fun]

I believe all of us here are the 20% of programmers!

gregwhitworth, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 08:07 AM, said:

@coden4fun

Quote

No no the point isn't learning enough lisp, or haskell, or python to "get by", but to be the one who is continuously, passionately curious about all forms of computer science, and will continue to learn whatever language hatches their curiosity to run free and have no true definition of time, work, play and will not take any breaks to truly be the an admired programmer by their peers, for their desire is to know as much as they can about programming, and they worry not about their wallets.

I'm glad that you said that, because at the end of the article I was like, shoot I need a third category. I don't create my own Linux or Windows based applications, but I program all day on other people's websites, then I come home and program on my own projects to further my development and have fun while doing it. So I would say that there needs to be several levels. But it was still a decent read.

--

Greg

Thanks! and you're welcome!

[Raynes]

KYA, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 05:58 AM, said:

I don't agree with this article's assessment. You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home. That's total bullshit. All this article does is ignite the language war, again...It brings up the OS war...again. How original.

Any true alpha will see this article for what it is, a rehash on the age old truth that those who are proactive and are truly interested in their craft will be the best. True in any industry in any time. The article does a ridiculous amount of name dropping, only to eventually say that the other 80% only learns enough to get by. What if they learned just enough lisp or Linux to "get by"? That wasn't covered.

Don't take that blog post for the gospel. It's not.

I don't think that anyone took the article seriously. But that's beside the point, I'm on windows, but I'm not in programming for profit. My primary language is a LISP and I'm a functional programmer. I get excited about programming, it's a part of who I am. I think that qualifies me as an "Alpha" programmer.

[coden4fun]

Raynes, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 10:25 AM, said:

KYA, on 17 Mar, 2009 - 05:58 AM, said:

I don't agree with this article's assessment. You can still be an "alpha" and not play around with lisp or have Linux installed at home. That's total bullshit. All this article does is ignite the language war, again...It brings up the OS war...again. How original.

Any true alpha will see this article for what it is, a rehash on the age old truth that those who are proactive and are truly interested in their craft will be the best. True in any industry in any time. The article does a ridiculous amount of name dropping, only to eventually say that the other 80% only learns enough to get by. What if they learned just enough lisp or Linux to "get by"? That wasn't covered.

Don't take that blog post for the gospel. It's not.

I don't think that anyone took the article seriously. But that's beside the point, I'm on windows, but I'm not in programming for profit. My primary language is a LISP and I'm a functional programmer. I get excited about programming, it's a part of who I am. I think that qualifies me as an "Alpha" programmer.

You sure are. I have messed around with linux and I would say I messed around with linux back when Red hat 5 was out, and you didn't have this Ubuntu version for every user. Back when Java was being taught on the AP Comp Sci level, and an online college class of C++ excited me as a sophomore in high school.

Back when people programmed because they wanted to go to school the next day and brag to their geeky friends one they were able to accomplish the night before.

Now it's too much about profit and making a buck, and with that comes a lot more pressure to succeed, but to be honest I don't let that get to me at all.

I simply go out and I learn python, or haskell, or I learn about microcontrollers and most always focus on game development, for that is my true passion above any programming is making video games... Yeah, there's just something about making an original video game that you can honestly say, "I haven't seen anyone make this yet", or

"WOW, I can't believe I made a video game while learning how to use a dictionary or list.

Programming will always for me just be about waisting time, learning something new, and having fun!