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Is Newbies Killing the Programming Star?

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In the age of information, programming finds itself at the forefront of it all. When you create a new system you have to have the software to drive it. Even if we were to go the way of iRobot you have to have software to give the robots their personality... and of course programmers develop that. If one day machines get their long awaited artificial intelligence, it will be at the hands of the programmer. But are newbies coming into the industry going to lock out the true programming stars with years of experience and the intelligence to boot? With a flood of newbies at all different levels, will they block out the bright lights of that rising star? We ponder some of this and more on this entry of the Programmer's Underground!

<Outer limits music meets Dora the Explorer theme music>

I want to start off saying that this blog entry is not to put down those who are new to programming and want to learn. Even us professionals started out as newbies and through hard work we got to where we are now. This entry is more to ponder the growing effects of how so many new programmers are springing up, some without the adequate skills and some without the background knowledge. Then when it comes time to find jobs they are locking out those who have the skills in the industry. I shall explain.

As many of you may or may not know I am American, but I currently reside as a permanent resident of Canada.. specifically in Vancouver British Columbia. I came to this country for personal reasons and have enjoyed living and working here. When I came up, Canada was experiencing (and is still experiencing... but not so severely) what is known as the "Brain drain". Hi-tech specialists get trained here and then go to the US to make more money, sucking out all the skilled workers from the Canadian economy. This was great for me since I am a specialist in hi-tech that wanted to come to Canada... I had no problem getting in.

I have been keeping an eye on the markets both in Canada and in the US and I see some disturbing trends when it comes to technology... specifically computer science. Through my work here on Dream In Code I have helped already hundreds of people, most of them new to the world of programming. My fellow colleagues have also done a huge job in teaching our craft to the newbies. Over time I came to realize that if every one of us true professionals taught 1000 newbies and even a fraction of those went on to become programmers, they would become our competition in the industry. Fine... competition is great for everyone right? Sure it is and I am not discouraging that part. What I am saying is that I feel the quality of some of the newbies may not be where it should be and even something on par with what I have skills wise. They then snatch up contract jobs, maybe stumble into a fortune 500 company, got a job through a friend to do some company's website... perhaps making bad decisions all the way through, leaving a trail of destruction from inexperience.

But the skilled person, that programming superstar, will show in the competition won't it? After all, if I am more skilled that someone else, I should be advancing further in career opportunities right? Well that is where the heart of my discussion lies. I feel it doesn't. So far I have met with various employers here in the city and have been severely disappointed in the pickings. Sure they would like to hire me, but I sure wouldn't want to work for them. Shady characters, below standard environments and of course the pay is not attracting any of those who left in the brain drain days. That part I don't get, but anyways.

Surely they would want to pay more to attract the best right? No! Why? The newbies. Let me provide an example. Lets say there are 10 candidates for a job. 9 of them are technically newbies who have less than 2 years experience in programming. Here is me with over 10. When it comes to jobs (I can only speak primarily in Vancouver and seems to be Canada as a whole), employers are willing to take one of the 9 candidates and grow them rather than take a 10 year veteran. Ok, I am purely beaten by the numbers. The odds are against me because I have a 1 in 10 shot to start, but then it is more like a 1 in 20 because of the bottom line... newbies on average will cost less.

Fine... that is just the way of the market. But here is the part that really gets to me, these newbies who took a job away from the skilled then go on the Internet and start flooding it with questions to help them do their job. Who do you think answers? Those who are skilled. Now that is the good scenario. The other scenario is not so good... they don't ask questions and instead make decisions that effect their companies without having all the facts. This has a severe side effect I will now explain.

Now later down the road one of us skilled people come in (perhaps when a newbie has moved on) and have to deal with the decisions they have made. Like a web site system that is not at all meeting the company's needs and if you can believe it, not even programmed with a single function (this is my situation btw). Basically whimpering, the company is now in deep trouble because they chose to go the cheap route rather than picking the skilled programmer to start. So do you think they would pay through the nose for a new programmer? Not necessarily! Lets go back to those odds mentioned earlier. The position comes up again and this time they are desperate. Instead of picking the skilled programmer again, this time I have the straight 1 in 10 odds instead of my 1 in 20. But why in the hell would they even attempt to go with a newbie? Sometimes they don't know, they just see the resumes and look at the price tag to get the person.

Some companies are in denial that they actually have a system that isn't working for them. Some claim they just don't have the budget to get the better person, no matter how much trouble they are in. Some insist that they are not going to pay for a bunch of skills that don't apply (when later they realize they wish they did because now the skills do apply).

The whole situation throws some doubt into my mind as to what we are doing on the Internet through boards like this. To all the DIC staff, just think about it for a second. How many times have you helped someone pass a project only to know that they probably didn't learn much from it but instead get credit? I can't believe some of the computer science grads I see coming out of the universities who know the languages, but none of the problem solving. How many times have you solved the same math problem or help them with a business function over and over again?

Again I am not against the idea of newbies learning, I was a newbie once too. I worked hard to get where I am today. All I am asking for is a fair shake from the industry and pray all these newbies don't decrease the chances of programming superstars getting the job opportunities they deserve!


If you want more blog entries like this, check out the official blog over on The Coders Lexicon. There you will find more code, more guides and more resources for programmers of all skill levels!

13 Comments On This Entry

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22 October 2007 - 10:33 AM
Wow. I'll be honest, I normally am quite intrigued by your blog posts, but this one smacks of the exclusionary and egotistical attitudes that have long plagued the IT industry as whole. Perhaps a long discourse to talk about each of your points would be a good way to go, but I feel I must at least point out some fundamental arguments:

1. I do not know you at all, so cannot judge if you are a superstar programmer or not. You seem to have self designated yourself as one. I'm not sure what definition you are using for 'superstar', but to me, it would normally mean someone of renown in the industry. If that is the case, I can assure you that would not have any trouble finding alternate employment. I have been working professionally in this field for a number of years at a national and international level (company wise), and can tell you programmers of renown are on people's radar. Not suitable for this post, but I can tell you right now exactly whom from MS, Oracle, etc...that I would love to poach.

2. The approach of the employment market you describe is applied across almost all industries, not simply programming.As with any industry, the mitigation is to make a name for yourself as a top performer. there are bricklayers out there who charge less than other bricklayers. You are free to choose the one you want - cheap or more expensive. Usually the more expensive ones have more experience and a better name - that would be my choice, but not everyone's. You can't force an employer to hire someone.

3. What about the opposite situation - offshoring? there are qualified programmers out there in other countries with 20 years of experience building the world's best application, that may be willing to work for a fraction of your cost. Would that the justify their selection over yours? What about that 1 in 100 (or 50, or 25) newbie programmer who is brilliant, and far more accomplished than you?



Sure they would like to hire me, but I sure wouldn't want to work for them.

You're making a direct choice here. You set your price, and you decide for whom you'll work.

I guess at the end of the day, my points are as follows:

1. Experience does not equal talent. It never has, and it never will. I am a programmer, and quite a talented one by my estimation (and my career record), but am always meeting young programmers who have ideas and talents that I am quite sure will eclipse mine. I hire talented coders all the time.

2. That being said, not necessarily every new programmer is competent. Not necessarily every experienced programmer is competent. In the end, talent should win out. If it does not, then there is a fundamental problem with the company in question that has nothing to do with programming.



The whole situation throws some doubt into my mind as to what we are doing on the Internet through boards like this. To all the DIC staff, just think about it for a second. How many times have you helped someone pass a project only to know that they probably didn't learn much from it but instead get credit? I can't believe some of the computer science grads I see coming out of the universities who know the languages, but none of the problem solving. How many times have you solved the same math problem or help them with a business function over and over again?

What we are doing is providing help because we choose to do so. I do try to help others develop the proper skill needed to succeed, such as proper debugging techniques and code optimization, as well as standards. Some learn, some don't. That's life. Is it a failing of th education system? Maybe. Does it have anything specifically to do with programming? No at all, the same problem exist in other industries as well. I know accountants that can't add, and business analysts that can;t do a simple impact assessment. As with you, we make our own choices.

Certainly no offense intended in my response, but I do have a problem with the attitude conveyed in your original post.

Good discussion, though! :)


22 October 2007 - 11:10 AM
You certainly have valid points and while I do know it happens across the spectrum of industries out there, I do find it highly prevalent in the world of programming/software development... even more so than other industries. Even accountants who can't add are quickly discovered and weeded out.

But anyways, the post was not meant to smack of a rancid attitude, but merely a point of view about where the industry is heading and to generate some discussion which I will consider a success from your reply. :)

As for the labeling a superstar or not, I am not saying I am or am not. What I was trying to get at is that there might be a superstar out there who will remain undiscovered due to a high influx of software development newbies. Again, that could be said for any industry... I am sure we missed the next albert einstein because of an opportunity stolen away by someone with a less brilliant future. That is just the nature of the game.

But you do have to admit that with the unusual demand for IT professionals and those entering the industry it is unlike any other industry out there. With almost every top 10 job list having at least 3 computer related fields in it, the effect I am attempting to describe is of utmost importance and relevance.

I do appreciate the angle of being one who hires programmers because that is one area I cannot speak to and it sounds like your company is doing things the right way... a trait I wish I could say for a large majority of the currently existing industry.

The last thing I want to mention is about the goal of DIC here (a goal I share whole heartedly btw). I wanted to just spark some thought not in if we should participate or not, but what might be the end result of a solution we have provided. I know for a fact that DIC has helped get a person a job in programming when they probably couldn't code themselves out of a paper bag. Is that solely a fault of DIC? No... it happens everywhere. I just want people to think about this post when they think about their next answer. Maybe we should take more of a teaching perspective than just a helper perspective... that way the newbies of the future will certainly deserve to be on the same playing field as everyone else and can feel confident in their own abilities.

I sure hope you didn't take this post to be some kind of "programming genocide" and that we should stop helping newbies because they are taking our jobs kind of post. I tried to state that right up front. Perhaps I didn't do well enough in explaining that. For that I am sorry. :(

Thanks for the reply Amadeus. I am honored to have a valued member of DIC regularly reading my blog. :)


22 October 2007 - 11:37 AM
I'll extend my own apologies if I seemed a little harsher than I normally would. Having watched your continual drive to help on this site, I know for a fact that you are neither exclusionary nor egotistical. :)

Your questions are certainly valid, and do in fact present a relatively accurate picture of the industry (although it does apply to many industries).

You are a talented developer - I sincerely hope that your company, nor others that you may work for would waste your talents.

Excellent post.


22 October 2007 - 08:54 PM
Looking at this from a non-newbie and non-professional perspective (which is where I consider myself to be, not from an egotistical standpoint, but simply from realizing that I do have a firmer grasp on logic than a lot of students out there), I would have to say that I agree with you for the most part. Let me explain. Right now, I am personally working on a per-contract basis for a local software firm. I had this job without them ever seeing my code, ever seeing anything I had programmed, and without them ever even asking what languages I know. I simply got lucky and was in the right place at the right time. The fact that a college sophomore can land a job where experience should be key is a very interesting site to me and, while I don't doubt my ability to do the job, I do realize that there were people far better suited.

As Amadeus pointed out, this is a prevalent trend in all industries sadly, but even more so amongst computer science. I think a lot of the problems stem from a misunderstanding amongst employers (generalizing) that, if you know a computer language, you can program. As you pointed out, that is not the case as I too have actually seen several graduate level students who did not understand basic logic. I myself (through the people I contract for) have been brought in for consultation on a few outside jobs, and there were several times when I would speak with the programmers only to find out that they didn't understand the basic premise of a loop or a function.

Lastly, I'm going to explain why I help around </DIC> (as I can). I do it for a few different reasons, one being that one of my end goals in life is to be a college professor in computer science, so I view helping these people out as a form of training. Also I do it because, if I don't know the answer, I research it to find out for my own knowledge, and simply relay my findings to them, thus furthering myself.

As I said, I'm not really a professional, but I don't consider myself a newbie either, I'm just still learning is all.

Oh, and your post does work, anything that can provoke me to write a comment this long on any blog deserves kudos.


22 October 2007 - 11:27 PM
Every good post, this certainly enlightened me as to how it is in the industry. Put it this way, I wouldn't watch a quiz show if people were fed answers through their headsets (I wouldn't watch a quiz show anyway but thats besides the point). This is exactly what the newbies are trying to accomplish, by frequently asking questions and failing to understand the task themselves. :blink:


23 October 2007 - 09:16 AM
I appreciate the replies from aceofspades and rodgerb. You made some good points aceofspades. I guess you would fall into the category of people I was referring to (not saying that you don't deserve your job). But you, and a lot of people in this world in different industries, fell into job placement just because you knew some computing. And that was mostly my point about the amount of newbies who pick up a little of what we show them and use it to land jobs, killing chances of someone who is hardcore into the stuff and could bring about some real advancements (this is what I meant with the idea of a superstar).

Combined earlier with Amadeus' point on offshoring (where they are really ramping up the newbies in places like India) it is slowly locking out the real killer jobs. I think when the computer science industry cools off a little, it will get even harder.

Glad to see people are seeing some of my point. Thanks for the replies! :)


23 October 2007 - 12:15 PM

Martyr2, on 23 Oct, 2007 - 12:16 PM, said:

You made some good points aceofspades. I guess you would fall into the category of people I was referring to (not saying that you don't deserve your job). But you, and a lot of people in this world in different industries, fell into job placement just because you knew some computing.

I agree with you completely, that's why I used myself as an example. In retrospect though, I should've given a little more about the situation as well. I live in a very rural area (ever seen Deliverance?) where, more often than not, I hear a computer referred to as "one a 'dem new-fangled addin' machines" (which, in a sense they are, but I think you get my point) so most people leave this area as soon as they finish college. I think I got the job because I knew how to make a form, whereas, most of the "experienced" people in this area are so behind in the field that they can do nothing but console based applications.


24 October 2007 - 08:00 AM
Most of my experience is in the hardware and support side of things, I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to programming so I'll draw on that experience.
I used to work for a firm where most of the management team were chosen by nepotism and patronage so the actual knowledge of day to day running was low. This meant you could feed them anything and they would believe it if your face fit and you could play golf, and inversely they wouldn't believe a word you said unless you were a regular invitee to private BBQs no matter how much experience you had.

I provided computer support and training and maintained a small network between two (originally Unix based) CAD servers and their associated punching machines as well as another job in the records side of engineering (most employees there had at least two jobs).
When the need came for a new manager of this team, there was myself who knew a bit of unix and had been maintaining the systems and teaching my colleagues for several years or a new guy brand new to the company no experience in the business but who laughed at all the inane jokes etc. (I have never been able to be a sycophant even when I've wanted to).
Obviously he got the job and for the first two weeks of it he did no work at all. He got himself a book on unix and sat learning it. Not a problem if it's just a bit of training he needed but he had been chosen for the job on the basis of him telling them he had years of unix experience...he'd never even seen the unix command prompt before.

I ended up running the show anyway with him like a jockey on my back making final decisions and taking credit etc. Eventually he blagged his way into another higher paying job and I was left running things without the pay or position of a manager. They figured they didn't need to hire another manager as everything was running smoothly anyway.

Having had to do someone else's work for them I was wary of inflicting this on others when I moved on so I only asked questions so that I could learn from them. In fact I even got frustrated with one guy who regularly wouldn't tell me why something worked, he just wanted to hand me the answer and have me go away.

I'm too honest for my own good so I couldn't bring myself to lie my way in to a new job so I ended up getting some basic training in C++ and I started by volunteering for a company for three months for free then earning minimum wage while I learned J2ME. It was mutually beneficial as I got a start in the industry that was otherwise closed to me and the company got a programmer for the money they could afford as there was no way the start up company could have paid a professional J2ME programmer back then.

I wrote games for the company that were of a salable level and they seemed happy with them and I eventually got a couple of pay rises and am now in a management position as the head of the testing department but since the very start of working for this company have had several jobs (again! how do I get myself into this position). As well as J2ME coding and game/website testing I maintain the hardware, install new software, I set up (I mean physically laid the wiring etc.) and maintain the network, I am the first port of call on any computer related problem, I recently had to setup, with no prior experience, an Asterisk server so the company can run the phones off a VOIP server.

My continuing problem is that I can learn fairly quickly how to do most computer related things to a passable level at least (I had only been programming about 5 months total when the first game I wrote was sold) so people continually ask me to with no recognition of the value of what I'm doing for them.
Even now my boss is thinking of getting in a more experienced programmer and moving me to testing permanently because (without taking into account all the other jobs I cover) he thinks he needs a faster programmer, which obviously comes with experience (ironically his other game programmer has many years experience and is very fast with the first draft of his games but it takes me months to bug test them as he is sloppy and forgetful so he never really finishes them off properly and even creates new bugs as he fixes the old ones but my boss compares my completed almost bug free games to his first draft)

I'm going to fight to keep my J2ME position or move on if I lose it. Now people may look at me as taking an opportunity away from a professional but I know I'm not as the company doesn't have the budget for one really and I am still not paid what I would get if you looked for someone off the street to cover my job/s.

I know I'm a newbie and I wouldn't try to say otherwise. I too have missed out on jobs that I was qualified for when others who were not stepped in and bizarrely in at least two cases earned more than I was to do them (I also designed the company website in my old job only for the company to hire a manager , with no computer knowledge, to control the project who took my design and didn't even thank me for it).

It riles me but I know the industry doesn't owe it to me to be fair, no company has to be fair to their staff, and the industry doesn't owe me a break either.

I think, although money plays too important a role in hiring decisions, it's knowledge that causes most of the problems. Some people end up paying more than they needed to or at least paying that sum to the wrong guy. Others end up not paying enough for what they have and eventually lose it because of this and it's largely because people doing the hiring and firing are often not sure of what they need and what they have so they make decisions based on what it will cost and whether the prospective employee presents well. Of course there will be exceptions (not trying to step on Amadeus' toes here I'm sure he's fully aware of what he needs when he hires his staff :P) but from my own personal experience important skills are ignored and unfit hires are made because of it. Not just because it will cost less (as it can cost more in wages or in paying to fix what the new hire breaks/miscodes).

What may be impossible but would be nice if it existed is some sort of skill scale that people could match employees to and an independent service that helped companies figure out what they needed for a given task. They might only need the skills of a talented newbie or the experience of a dyed in the wool specialist. If they could go to a "skilled employee salesman" and tell him what they want and he could match up an employee like selling them a PC or a car then they would get what they paid for and coders of all levels could get the right work for them.

But I'm not really experienced enough in coding to say whether the current system is working or not...just my $0.02

edited embarrassing spelling mistake :P


24 October 2007 - 08:30 AM
I wrote an article about this topic a few weeks ago: Should You Pursue a Career In Programming?

I've been helping newbie programmers online, first on Compu$erve and then on the Internet, since 1993. It's been a recent, post dotcom era, trend for programmers-in-training to be in it for the money and trying to find someone to do their work for them. Ultimately, as you point out, they will fail in the workplace.


24 October 2007 - 10:26 AM
Excellent entry Martyr2! I have to agree with what you, and Amadeus, had to say. As a Senior Developer for a fairly large publicly traded organization, and as a developer of over 10 years professionally, I have seen a serious influx of programmers, who claim to know, who speak the lingo real well, but when push comes to shove they don't have the problem solving skills to become a Senior developer. With guidance they produce good code, but don't have the ability to produce that code on their own.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way shape or form saying I am a "superstar" programmer. Do I feel I am good at what I do, yes I do, but even with my experience and knowledge I'm not sure I would even put myself at the level of you or Amadeus, some say that is just the modest person in me, I firmly believe it to be true. I applied for several positions before landing this one, and quite frankly I'm happy I lost out on the others. I have, however, received several calls and emails from those employers who chose to go the cheap route instead of opting for an experienced programmer, some of which are now offering more than I was initially asking, and I have to turn them down for several reasons, I'm extremely content with where I'm at, and personally, I think they need to live with the decisions they made and I'm in no hurry to fix their problems. Sorry, got a little off track there :blush: .

I help on </> as I feels its my way of giving back to the programming community, the very community that helped me get to where I'm at now, the same community that wasn't too helpful back in the 80's when I was first trying to break in as a newbie programmer. I try, as do you (yes I read most of your posts) to not only show how the solution should work/look/operate, and at the same time offer links and explanations as to what I'm doing, the objects I'm using, how these object work.

When I first came to DIC I just started blindly giving code and answers to anyone who asked, then realized that I wasn't doing that person any good at all, so now unless they show an effort, write code on their own and are having problems with it, I don't provide code solutions. Even in the tutorials I write, I offer links to the object I'm using, an explanation, in as much detail as I can, of what I'm doing and how that object works, and why I'm doing something the way I am. I also offer explanations of #region...#endregion (most of my work is in C#) and the importance of comments and documentation. Once again, I'm not referring to myself as a superstar programmer but I do, however feel I am very good at what I do, and offer help in the format I feel with influence the asked the most.


26 October 2007 - 09:38 AM
I feel my skill does not come from knowing a language, so therefore, I see a skilled programmer is not necessarily the one who knows the most languages. I am getting better and better as I study programming. The higher your skill is, usually, the quicker and more powerful you learn a language and apply it to your solution. (Learning a language more Powerfully? By this I mean being able to see the whole point of a language and being able to see applications of it).

I don't feel comfortable saying that I am incredibly skilled at programming because I am humble. I would like it if people refer me as to "someone who likes writing computer programs as a hobby, is studying Computer Science for a Major, and mainly loves to design and write video games'. I don't like elitism (referring to the whole idea of inferiority and superiority simply to make oneself have a higher esteem), but I will give a potential employer the reason why they should hire me when I start looking for a serious job.

I plan on seeing who will hire me, and decide which one I would like to work for. Whether it is hard or easy, I will get a job to support myself in the future. If the trend you mention will make finding a job harder for me, then it will be harder for me to find a job. For now I am working on my college education as well as bettering myself with my projects (such as WeaponSoul).

By the way the jobs I have to take in order to fund all my education suck! Stay in school! Without the college education you're no different from the guy who hands you a hamburger no matter how skilled you are at anything in terms of employment.


01 November 2007 - 06:56 AM
I haven't read the comments but I do want to say a few things.

This problem does not only lie in programming but all areas. For example, my aunt has been contracted by a fourtune 500 company for many years now. She is an accountant and has told me that many people like her were not getting their contracts renewed because they could bring in fresh grads for a third of her compensation. Luckily she hasn't been booted yet.

I realize your point is helping noobs destroys your chance to find a job. But like in programmists post http://www.dreaminco...h...c=36005&hl= the bad ones always get weeded out. I don't know that you believe in karma or not but basically what you put out always comes back three fold. Regardless if you believe this or not I have found this to be true.

So maybe you have helped 100s of people and only a handful of them have become programming stars themselves...the rest are probably off getting fired. In the movies the bad guy always gets it in the end. I have found this to be true in life over and over. But I just don't see how someone w/ 10 years of exp. could miss out on they couldn't find a job. Are you personally having problems finding work you would enjoy at the right compensation?

I understand w/ so many noobs it is making the payscale for programming jobs in general go down. That isn't anything you can control. Eventually companies will learn from their mistakes for hiring the cheap guy. They will find better ways for challenging their skills before they are hired. This just takes time to evolve. The key is for you guys...w/ 10 years not accept pay you don't feel is sufficient. To keep the employers understanding why they are getting someone for so cheap.

As a noob myself I would never just want the answer. I am one that must understand how everything works inside and out before I feel ok to move on. Most of my problems are syntax or just things about a certain language I could just not possibly know about. If ever I come on here with a full blown logic problem then I would not expect an straight up answer, I would hope you guys would give me information or hints/clues to make me think for myself. I am a firm believer in what you are preaching and someone mentioned in progrmmists post about how DIC would lose revenue if you guys stopped 'giving' answers.

I say you approach every logic/problem solving question in a way to poke and prod at the noobs mind. Give them enough to know you are willing to help but don't solve their problems for them. I realize this is what most of you guys do anyhow. I have seen it. But you will weed out the mediocre noobs and attract those with potential. The future superstar programmers will want someone to help mold them, not do their work for them, they realize, just as I do, you won't get far if you don't discipline yourself to become a better problem solver. Spreading good knowledge unselfishly will give this forum a respectable name and it will thrive as it has, because basically this is what you guys strive for anyway.


01 November 2007 - 09:38 AM
Thanks supersssweety for the input. :)

I am not having a tremendously horrible time finding a fulfilling job, and I even have interviews on occasion and looking for the perfect position. The problem here is that Vancouver is very hot for technology elite so employers feel they can pick up any programmer off the street and they will fit the bill... so why not get the cheaper of the choices? The problem is, they can't recognize the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and those who have the skills and the implications down the road that a person with little experience has on their company's health.

Now I understand that it happens in all industries and like many of us have already pointed out, we feel that the IT industry is being especially hit hard with this. After all, IT is growing very fast and people are rushing into the market with little experience under their belt. You can't say that for all the other industries. Secondly, employers are lacking the skills to see who is really worth keeping and who isn't. Perhaps I should coin a term for this phenomenon... how about "the newbie haze" which I will define as the cloud of motivated newbies which obfuscate the IT market and preventing qualified applicants from having a fair shake with employers.

Again, this isn't an attack on anyone who is a newbie and I hope a newbie is not taking offense to this. I am trying to describe a market trend which is appearing in the industry as a whole and which I feel is much stronger in IT due to the high demand for applicants. I have already had several people comment on how they noticed the trend too and that is all I was really trying to bring out. Make sure I am not the only one that sees it.

Now that I know it does exist, I will have to find another way to differentiate myself from the others because knowing more languages and having the years isn't going to be enough to counter act the newbie haze effect.

Thanks guys!
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