[DaneAU]

lol @ teletubbies hahaha

No doubt many drugs are extrememly bad when not managed, in fact most fall into this category. However as all of us are more than likely aware, the majority rarely gets what it wants, its the left who shout the loudest despite them taking on a minority, ask anyone if they have ever smoked or been high and a very large majority have tried or engaged in illicit drug taking... so with so many people having tried / used these substances why has our society not fallen completely in a heap ? Why are there not 70% of the population shooting up herion in the streets ? Its because people are able to make choices on their own, they can take these things and not let themselves be run by them. The proof is in the pudding that the drugs themselves are not a worry, rather the maturity, education and social situations shape the management of an individuals intake. Its up to the holder how they manage their life, its up to them to decide when enough is enough and when to stop.

[Bort]

bbq, on 13 May, 2009 - 06:20 AM, said:

lol @ teletubbies hahaha

Replace lol with shoot

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

WolfCoder, on 6 May, 2009 - 04:57 AM, said:

GSamione, on 5 May, 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

...Can Alcohol be used for even half of the items mentioned above...

Yes, actually.

which ones?

modi123_1, on 6 May, 2009 - 12:46 PM, said:

erik.price, on 6 May, 2009 - 02:37 PM, said:

modi123_1, on 6 May, 2009 - 04:13 PM, said:

erik.price, on 6 May, 2009 - 01:37 PM, said:

People are going to be using marijuana whether the law allows it or not, so why not legalize it try to get some money out of the deal?

Let's play a fun game called substitution:

Quote

People are going to be using marijuana murder whether the law allows it or not, so why not legalize it try to get some money out of the deal?

marijuana != homicide.

Should we outlaw all tobacco and alcohol products because the same substitution could be made there as well?

edit: damn typos

Yeah, figured you were too young to get the logical fallacy I highlighted. No problem...

Don't knowingly argue with fallacies.....i cant think of anything more stupid/foolish than sitting in front of your computer formulating your argumen and saying, "i'll use a fallacy, hopefully they won't notice."

bbq, on 12 May, 2009 - 01:15 AM, said:

When was marijuana actually collectively named and shamed as a banned substance ? Was it in the 70's ? Sorry but since those times the world has gone down hill, i think more people need to chill out a bit and enjoy life rather than worrying about anything and everything, A quiet toke at home instead of a bottle of port is definitely better for you and subsequently i cannot see why people think marijuana wrecks the world, Alcohol and Tobacco puts more strain on families than anything combined, Alcohol completely inhibits judgment and is always associated with aggressive antisocial whilst marijuana is associated with antisocial behavior, which undoubtedly it does incur, however thats the point - its not something you do in mixed company, its done in the right environment and affects no one of the wider society.

As someone mentioned early people will abuse anything and they do. The drug has so many beneficial properties over things like alcohol and cigarettes, yet is is labeled as a sin where as that others are not. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. The comment about heroin for pain relief also stands firmly true, for people very ill it is the only drug that can match the pain relief while not inflicting extra stress on the respiratory system. I know this from personal experience and a top surgeon actually stating this fact to my parents about someone close to death and us. If people were not so pig headed one person may have had a better quality of life in their final days. I have no sympathy for addicts, whether it be obese people gouging food, anorexics doing the opposite or drug addicts who have failed to self discipline themselves and as a result have walked down the path of no return to a life of misery and suffice. I do however have great sympathy for people who are suffering as a result of a minority of the population forcing us to take responsibility through the courts and governments to ensure we protect them from themselves and us.

As i said before, pharmaceutical companies can do whatever they please in terms of research into drugs however the common man cannot smoke a jay if he/she chooses. Synthetic drugs are a large cause of good and bad, let us not forget that the biggest finds such as penicillin came from natural occurring molds and we should not be so quick to look in that direction and keep that pathway open for those who choose to self medicate and maintain a normal functional life. Medicare will subsidize a consortium of drugs here and allow you to ingest them all regardless however simple things that grow in the ground have been outlawed ? Honestly its a joke really.

i dont think there is an explicit date that drugs were demoralized. It has to do with people demonizing what they don' understand. in the middle ages marijuana would be considered magic and evil.

i must say that i agree with everything in your post.

WolfCoder, on 12 May, 2009 - 07:52 AM, said:

That same person mentioned that the ban on marijuana is a political motive otherwise it wouldn't have been banned. It would make sense all this weird moral stuff would be a cover-up propaganda measure to make an excuse not to provide the real reason of banning it. However, I don't really know what sort of political thing it can achieve.

if you owned a paper company and the legalization of marijuana would put you out of business you would push to keep it illegal for political reasons.

[WolfCoder]

333OnlyHalfEvil, on 15 May, 2009 - 07:22 PM, said:

WolfCoder, on 6 May, 2009 - 04:57 AM, said:

GSamione, on 5 May, 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

...Can Alcohol be used for even half of the items mentioned above...

Yes, actually.

which ones?
...

WolfCoder, on 12 May, 2009 - 07:52 AM, said:

That same person mentioned that the ban on marijuana is a political motive otherwise it wouldn't have been banned. It would make sense all this weird moral stuff would be a cover-up propaganda measure to make an excuse not to provide the real reason of banning it. However, I don't really know what sort of political thing it can achieve.

if you owned a paper company and the legalization of marijuana would put you out of business you would push to keep it illegal for political reasons.

Plenty of them. Alcohol is a fuel, you know. Actually, plenty of things can be used as fuel and other things. Apart from the drinking of alcohol, it can be cooked into food to provide flavor- the effects get baked out.

And.. What are you going on about a paper company. Newspapers? Printing paper? If anything people would want to get some paper to roll it up. I'm thinking of the other smoking tobacco companies taking a hit if anything for the reasons people stated about how regular cigs are full of so much extra stuff.

Now that's irony at it's finest~ A tobacco company making a competitor illegal by trying to provide a case that smoking pot is morally wrong... Hehehe-!

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 18 May 2009 - 04:27 PM

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

WolfCoder, on 18 May, 2009 - 03:26 PM, said:

333OnlyHalfEvil, on 15 May, 2009 - 07:22 PM, said:

WolfCoder, on 6 May, 2009 - 04:57 AM, said:

GSamione, on 5 May, 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

...Can Alcohol be used for even half of the items mentioned above...

Yes, actually.

which ones?
...

WolfCoder, on 12 May, 2009 - 07:52 AM, said:

That same person mentioned that the ban on marijuana is a political motive otherwise it wouldn't have been banned. It would make sense all this weird moral stuff would be a cover-up propaganda measure to make an excuse not to provide the real reason of banning it. However, I don't really know what sort of political thing it can achieve.

if you owned a paper company and the legalization of marijuana would put you out of business you would push to keep it illegal for political reasons.

Plenty of them. Alcohol is a fuel, you know. Actually, plenty of things can be used as fuel and other things. Apart from the drinking of alcohol, it can be cooked into food to provide flavor- the effects get baked out.

And.. What are you going on about a paper company. Newspapers? Printing paper? If anything people would want to get some paper to roll it up. I'm thinking of the other smoking tobacco companies taking a hit if anything for the reasons people stated about how regular cigs are full of so much extra stuff.

Now that's irony at it's finest~ A tobacco company making a competitor illegal by trying to provide a case that smoking pot is morally wrong... Hehehe-!

That's less than half

I was referring to a paper company because if marijuana was legalized paper companies would lose a lot of money because people would start using hemp. Therefore, they all push to keep marijuana illegal.

[WolfCoder]

Still makes little sense. And you don't have to quote the 8 or so other people if you're just responding to me.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 24 May 2009 - 12:54 AM

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

Would you tell me how it makes little sense? New product = less business for the owners of the old products.

There's only 3 ppl in that quote (you, me, and 1 other guy). The first line of my reply corresponded to the first half of the quote and the next couple of lines corresponded to the second half of the quote. (I got lucky tho, I normally just quote the 8 ppl and don't worry about editing crap out).

[Cookie Mobster]

Legal or illegal I'll always stiff smoke um up all day, I can not help it, this was how I was raised and I have never looked back.

I've always felt that the drug war is about controlling the population, who is right to tell someone what they can/can not do to themselves. Our social structure is based on unity & conformity, what about individual choice?

Sam
P.S. long break, where are all the old folks?

[supersloth]

most aren't around, good to see you sam. how's life?

[modi123_1]

Cookie Mobster, on 25 May, 2009 - 11:32 AM, said:

Legal or illegal I'll always stiff smoke um up all day, I can not help it, this was how I was raised and I have never looked back.

I've always felt that the drug war is about controlling the population, who is right to tell someone what they can/can not do to themselves. Our social structure is based on unity & conformity, what about individual choice?

Sam
P.S. long break, where are all the old folks?

Great definition there:

Quote

social structure is based on unity & conformity

It should be a balancing act - herding the cats in the general direction which is best for the group while allowing the individual to thrive. Thus "dope is for dopes" and "crack is whack" wins the round...

[Servatis]

to be short. and to reply to the OP.

yes it should be legal everywhere.

I would bet a $100 on the fact that alcohol kills more braincells than marijuana.
also there are many more advantages, socially and financially, than there are disadvantages, most of which have been named by posters before me.

thank god I live in The Netherlands (Holland(but actually not Holland because Holland is only about half of The Netherlands.... damn you Americans for not knowing Europe!))

This post has been edited by Servatis: 26 May 2009 - 02:41 AM

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

This would be so awesome.

[macosxnerd101]

Duh. That way we can tax it through the roof. America can use drugs as a way to get back in the black!

[LoveIsNull]

It would never work if it were taxed "through the roof". Legal market price would have to be substantially lower than black market price, or else the black market remains.

In order for anything like this to happen, Cannabis would have to be re-scheduled to the lowest category or removed from the Controlled Substances Act altogether. That cannot happen unless there is a majority vote (from congress) to do so. If it did happen, more laws would have to be passed at state and municipal levels to regulate\tax it like alcohol.
This is a long, slow, tedious process that is already being undertaken by several organizations such as NORML. The first\easiest steps involve decriminalizing marijuana at state level, few states have but more will follow.

Beyond it all, everybody has all of these misconceptions about this truly amazing plant. I have spent years of my life researching cannabis (among other substances) and I cannot even begin to explain just how incredible it is.

Different studies done on cannabinoids, the psychoactive chemicals in cannabis, have shown them to posses antioxidant properties. Many of them act as anti-inflammatory agents. They have also been shown to be neuroprotectants, that is, they actually protect neurons.
Such substances have been shown, for instance, to prevent damage that occurs from beta-amyloid plaque which plays a role in neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.
Certain cannabinoids have also been shown to inhibit\induce the death of malignant glioma cells. Those are the ones that cause cancer. On the same token, they have also been shown in studies of mice and rats to inhibit the growth of tumors and increase the life expectancy of the animal.
Not to mention that it decreases nausea while increasing appetite, relieves muscular aches and pains, symptoms related to multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, glaucoma, insomnia, jet lag and God knows what else.

You're never going to hear about this kind of stuff on the news, or read about it in the paper. The links I posted are just a few sources to satisfy anybodies immediate curiosity, there is a substantial wealth of abstracts from related studies with similar findings, even on places like pubmed.gov, it is just sad.

[macosxnerd101]

LoveIsNull, on 6 Jul, 2009 - 05:09 PM, said:

It would never work if it were taxed "through the roof". Legal market price would have to be substantially lower than black market price, or else the black market remains.

In order for anything like this to happen, Cannabis would have to be re-scheduled to the lowest category or removed from the Controlled Substances Act altogether. That cannot happen unless there is a majority vote (from congress) to do so. If it did happen, more laws would have to be passed at state and municipal levels to regulate\tax it like alcohol.
This is a long, slow, tedious process that is already being undertaken by several organizations such as NORML. The first\easiest steps involve decriminalizing marijuana at state level, few states have but more will follow.

Agreed. But if/when it does happen, it's another vice tax. Which, FYI if you're looking to invest, vice companies (booze, porn, smokes, gambling, etc.) tend to be strong companies and produce tons of profits. Let's add pot (or even coke) to the list, and therefore more $$ to tax. Or even better, a tariff on imported Mexican dope. My philosophy with this: If the government can collect its taxes from someone else, let it.