[Jaakuuta]

KYA, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 04:24 PM, said:

Jaakuuta, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maybe if the people who produce the food were given services from the other people who don't make food...

That's how it works now!

Yes, but that's under a monetary system. I'm saying in response to the question about where would people get food who made no money off of the products they sold. Like Baavgai said, my ideal is for a Utopian society, and like I said before, this is all merely speculation. That doesn't change the fact about how I feel about the whole situation.

[KYA]

Jaakuuta, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 05:39 PM, said:

Yes, but that's under a monetary system. I'm saying in response to the question about where would people get food who made no money off of the products they sold. Like Baavgai said, my ideal is for a Utopian society, and like I said before, this is all merely speculation. That doesn't change the fact about how I feel about the whole situation.

I think you don't understand what money actually is. It's a medium of exchange. I could trundle down to the bazaar and trade some software for 3 goats, but why the hell would I want to? I'd rather deal with a monetary system. There's a reason why it is in existence.

[Jaakuuta]

I understand that it's a medium of exchange, I just feel there could be a better system. I don't claim to know what exactly that would be, I just think there could be something better.

[KYA]

Amadeus was correct in his assertion. You are quite naive.

Would you rather go to market with your goods? I think not.

Would you rather carry around a heavy bag of gold/silver coins? I think not.

Your comments here are nearly as ridiculous as the recent UN suggestion to introduce a new currency simply for the sake of protecting developing economies. It won't work, it will only make it worse. Good Lord.

[Jaakuuta]

I am not naive, I apparently haven't put it past you yet although I've said it several times, people somehow seem to have missed it I do not claim to believe that it will actually work. People are too worried about themselves to worry about the general good. These are simply ideals that I think would be a good. Finally, other people say they feel it is stealing, I simply say that based on these ideas I don't consider it as such. I am not trying to start a world revolution I think it would be great if we could all just live together in peaceful communities helping one another out fat chance of that I'm simply saying that due to these ideals I am not as concerned about certain things like minor piracies when there are much bigger issues people can be worrying about. I'm obviously not going to be able to convince anybody here since nobody seems to be noticing what I'm really saying anyway so I'm going to stop trying to convince anybody and just go back to doing what I usually do: appreciating the freetutorials available here and submitting my own Have a nice day

[rebelmind213]

Crackers are puting time and effort too

[PsychoCoder]

Okay, I've tried to keep quiet reading this thread but @Jaakuuta's are completely asinine and quite obviously shows that he has not spent a lot of time programming anything, or anything worth having. So @Jaakuuta You think a company like Microsoft should spend billions in R&D and development time then just give it away? Yeah like that makes a lot of sense, with that kind of logic no companies would ever stay in business.

You're just another one of these immature (and quite obviously very little experience in this industry) people who will do all they can do to rationalize stealing someone's work, and that shows the truly sad state of our society. You call yourself a programmer, yet have no problem with spending years developing something then having some group of script kiddies figure out how to crack it and in a sense steal your work? Thank God I dont have to work with you, and would never hire you to work for my business that's for sure (as most employers wouldn't either, and most require a NDA and would have you prosecuted once you give away their property, well maybe that's what you need to help you think somewhat logically)

Now I suppose I'm going to a similar response as you gave to Amadeus, but I would expect no less from a thief (and yes stealing software makes you thief, no matter how hard you try to rationalize it). It's people like you, who call themselves programmers, that truly make me sick and you have no right in this industry at all, period. And I too stand by my statements

[Locke]

KYA, on 21 May, 2009 - 09:08 AM, said:

Either way you need steam and/or a CD key to play online. So the purpose is....?

Yeah, because that has stopped people before. You know...like Windows 7...or Vista...or XP...or <insert software here>.

[Jaakuuta]

Quote

Okay, I've tried to keep quiet reading this thread but @Jaakuuta's are completely asinine and quite obviously shows that he has not spent a lot of time programming anything, or anything worth having. So @Jaakuuta You think a company like Microsoft should spend billions in R&D and development time then just give it away? Yeah like that makes a lot of sense, with that kind of logic no companies would ever stay in business.

I hope Microsoft fails! Enough said here...

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You're just another one of these immature (and quite obviously very little experience in this industry) people who will do all they can do to rationalize stealing someone's work, and that shows the truly sad state of our society. You call yourself a programmer, yet have no problem with spending years developing something then having some group of script kiddies figure out how to crack it and in a sense steal your work? Thank God I dont have to work with you, and would never hire you to work for my business that's for sure (as most employers wouldn't either, and most require a NDA and would have you prosecuted once you give away their property, well maybe that's what you need to help you think somewhat logically)

Well you obviously haven't read any of the other stuff I've said because I've already said before that I'm still a student and haven't actually worked as a programmer before. Nevertheless I think the way current copyrights go are an asinine way of doing competition. How are you supposed to compete against somebody when you can't even improve upon the same products? What kind of competition is that? That's completely ridiculous. When I work for a corporation and sign a contract, I don't give away company information and it's an ill assumption for you to think I would. In either case, I don't care if it takes a day or a million years to create a program, I still think it's a work of art and thus should not be marketable. This takes away the whole point of it being an artistic and creative endeavour. Money-driven demands and business that enforce specific settings on something defeat the whole purpose of artistic creativity. How can you say that something is truly art when the whole thing is mandated by somebody?! They might as well make it themselves if it's just going to be their ideas. You might as well be their lap dog. In either case with a person as rude as you I don't think I'd even want to work for you anyway so the feeling's mutual bub.

Quote

Now I suppose I'm going to a similar response as you gave to Amadeus, but I would expect no less from a thief (and yes stealing software makes you thief, no matter how hard you try to rationalize it). It's people like you, who call themselves programmers, that truly make me sick and you have no right in this industry at all, period. And I too stand by my statements

It's people like you who care nothing about artistic integrity and the good of others who have to hide everything like your work is special that nobody in a million years could ever think of it that make me sick. You have no right in a decent society of good people who care for one another and I stand by my statements.

edit
Anyway, I realize I'm an idealist and most of my ideas would never really work. I apologize if I've offended anybody or made anybody think I'm an idiot for my beliefs. I know a few of you have been less than polite about your responses, though I don't bear ill will towards anybody. This is the last I'm going to post in this thread so if you say anything else to me I probably won't see it. Anyway, have a nice day

This post has been edited by Jaakuuta: 21 September 2009 - 05:46 AM

[Amadeus]

So all of this is driven by your view that a program is art? what about those of us who may feel it's not art, but something else? I have a degree in Computer Engineering - a science.

FYI, is art not marketable? Art is bought and sold each day - and the rights to view said art are set by the owners.

[OliveOyl3471]

Good point.

Some art (not mine, of course) is worth millions...like the Mona Lisa or Last Supper. But who knows, maybe someone will be willing to pay millions for one of my drawings, after I'm dead. Of course, I don't plan to die so that question is moot anyway.

As for the original question, is software piracy good or bad? What kind of a dumb question is that? Piracy. The word says it. It's bad. Duh.

Jaakuuta, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm going to stop trying to convince anybody and just go back to doing what I usually do

ORLY?

[sbell1099]

Core, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 08:53 PM, said:

Quote

It is ok to pirate software for personally non profit use and so long as you don't make a profit.

It is not okay in any case. You will feel it once you release your own product and the same issue hits it. Piracy is law infringement, in any possible form and representation. Period.

Oh i know about it als-solutions software was once listed on a torrent site. But i personally still support my claims. if you pirated als-solutions software and used it to help you in college. Personally fair enough but i would rather have the money.

xclite, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 11:32 PM, said:

sbell1099, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 05:48 PM, said:

I personally think,

It is ok to pirate software for personally non profit use and so long as you don't make a profit.

I Arn't going to say about another type of media.

It's also ok to steal a computer for non profit use, as long as you don't make a profit. Or textbooks. See what I did thar?

No thats totally out of context. as you will define pirating as stealing but it's technically not the same as are you stoping some one from using there software because you have a pirated verison. NO !

so it is ok

[s3thst4]

I'd be fucking stoked if someone was pirating my software, means it's good enough for the honest people to buy.

[Core]

Quote

Oh i know about it als-solutions software was once listed on a torrent site. But i personally still support my claims. if you pirated als-solutions software and used it to help you in college. Personally fair enough but i would rather have the money.

I mentioned this before, and PsychoCoder mentioned this again in his last post - no matter how you rationalize it, it is still theft and it makes you a law violator. No matter for what purpose you did it.

If someone stole a book from a book store and then claims something like "Oh hey, I needed this book for college! You don't need to arrest me.", then sorry, it doesn't matter - you stole it.

Same applies to software - software is a product of human work, same as CDs, books, cars and houses. Not everyone can create it. As I said, I guess you will understand what I am talking about only when you will feel this on your own skin. As of now, the arguments are plainly naive.

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I hope Microsoft fails! Enough said here...

This makes you look as an immature kid, as you don't realize how much work an effort people put in various products. Microsoft succeeded because of innovation and hard work. Enough said.

[Bort]

Ok, so far in this thread, you guys have covered software, stealing actual products (someone mentioned computers), hippies, food, movies, and books.

Back in the 80s, when video recorders first came out, people used to record stuff off the TV all the time, whether it was a movie, or a TV show, or whatever.

What's the difference between downloading a torrent of a TV show, and recording it from the TV onto a video as people used to do?