[Zerobu]

Look At the WestBorrow Baptist Church.

[WolfCoder]

Zerobu, on 25 May, 2009 - 04:57 PM, said:

Look At the WestBorrow Baptist Church.

Oh yeah! How did I forget that perfect example. It's got selective born-in traits, corruption, and propaganda all rolled into one. But then, they are a little on the extreme side. However, examples of Christian control were requested~

I've already said there's plenty of free willed Christian scientists of about 99.96% of which know evolution who understand having a religion doesn't mean being retarded. I think it was 70% of scientists are christian in the US. I know most of them are, but the exact numbers are a little fuzzy and I'll have to go look it up. You can't just Google it because you need a honest source.

[mostyfriedman]

the moral aspects of christianity, i have no problems with..i have a problem with the concept of salvation though in christianity, that if you believe that Jesus was put on the cross for your sins, then you're off the hook..i find it illogical that someone gets punished for someone else's sins..i mean have you ever been to a country where if you commit murder, they would execute another person as a substitute??, i dont think so...

[computerfox]

you can't judge a whole group because of one part of that group. Christianity is a lot larger than you think. plus how much do you exactly know about christianity? or do you just listen to Bill Maher's opinion that Christianity is like terrorism? many athiest don't believe in God because they don't understand what it's all about, but the real athiesm deals with lots of study and coming to a conclusion that there is no god. what i'm trying to say is believe whatever you want, but don't judge others because they don't believe what you do.

i do see your point fried, but do you know that sometimes when someone is on death row another person can die in his place. course nobody probably will because it's human nature to protect ourselves. that's the definition of love. when you love someone you think about their needs as opposed to your own. let's say your child is in the middle of a fight, wouldn't you want to take that punch for him/her. it's the same thing because Christianity teaches us that God is our father, but we have to have the respect towards him as if HE is our king-humility.

This post has been edited by computerfox: 25 May 2009 - 06:09 PM

[mostyfriedman]

computerfox, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:06 PM, said:

you can't judge a whole group because of one part of that group. Christianity is a lot larger than you think. plus how much do you exactly know about christianity? or do you just listen to Bill Maher's opinion that Christianity is like terrorism? many athiest don't believe in God because they don't understand what it's all about, but the real athiesm deals with lots of study and coming to a conclusion that there is no god. what i'm trying to say is believe whatever you want, but don't judge others because they don't believe what you do.

i do see your point fried, but do you know that sometimes when someone is on death row another person can die in his place. course nobody probably will because it's human nature to protect ourselves. that's the definition of love. when you love someone you think about their needs as opposed to your own. let's say your child is in the middle of a fight, wouldn't you want to take that punch for him/her. it's the same thing because Christianity teaches us that God is our father, but we have to have the respect towards him as if HE is our king-humility.

but not when someone does something WRONG. for example hitler was a christian and he exterminated 6 million jews..lets say he believed in jesus and he had the crucifix hanging from his neck..according to christianity he's off the hook now..do you think that's fair??

[computerfox]

just because you wear the crucifix or go to mass or to church once a week doesn't make you a Christian. it's a relationship with God, reading the Bible, spending time with him as if he was right next to you. i know it's ironic for how i'm saying this shit, but i just hate when people think that they are Christians just because they do that crap. and you can tell if you have a healthy relationship with God by your every day life and actions. see that's what i mean, you judge what you don't understand.

[mostyfriedman]

computerfox, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:20 PM, said:

just because you wear the crucifix or go to mass or to church once a week doesn't make you a Christian. it's a relationship with God, reading the Bible, spending time with him as if he was right next to you. i know it's ironic for how i'm saying this shit, but i just hate when people think that they are Christians just because they do that crap. and you can tell if you have a healthy relationship with God by your every day life and actions. see that's what i mean, you judge what you don't understand.

i'm not judging what i dont understand..all this info i get is from christians, so i guess some christians dont know what their own faith is about and they were giving me false info..and as far as i can see very few christians in the world know their faith..but i still i think its illogical that jesus get crucified for the sins of others..a god that wants blood and has to sacrifice someone else cannot possibly be a god of mercy

[KYA]

mostyfriedman, on 25 May, 2009 - 06:16 PM, said:

computerfox, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:06 PM, said:

you can't judge a whole group because of one part of that group. Christianity is a lot larger than you think. plus how much do you exactly know about christianity? or do you just listen to Bill Maher's opinion that Christianity is like terrorism? many athiest don't believe in God because they don't understand what it's all about, but the real athiesm deals with lots of study and coming to a conclusion that there is no god. what i'm trying to say is believe whatever you want, but don't judge others because they don't believe what you do.

i do see your point fried, but do you know that sometimes when someone is on death row another person can die in his place. course nobody probably will because it's human nature to protect ourselves. that's the definition of love. when you love someone you think about their needs as opposed to your own. let's say your child is in the middle of a fight, wouldn't you want to take that punch for him/her. it's the same thing because Christianity teaches us that God is our father, but we have to have the respect towards him as if HE is our king-humility.

but not when someone does something WRONG. for example hitler was a christian and he exterminated 6 million jews..lets say he believed in jesus and he had the crucifix hanging from his neck..according to christianity he's off the hook now..do you think that's fair??

Actually no, that's not how it goes. I'm willing to bet Hitler was unrepentant, truly "not sorry" for his actions. Thus he is not off the hook. Oh and wearing jewelry doesn't cut it either. Your comments are a prime example of the uninformed regurgitating something they heard. edit: That's not meant as an insult to you personally

My understanding is that Hitler was an Atheist (utterly irrelevant). Buying a cross is not a get out of jail of free card, although the Catholics will lead you to believe it is (the merchandising opportunities are endless ). I would go out on a limb and say if Hitler believed in Jesus and was an earnest Christian he would not have murdered 6 million people. AND if he was, then he'd account for his actions when he died.

This post has been edited by KYA: 25 May 2009 - 06:32 PM

[computerfox]

thanks K for explaining what i wanted to say.

This post has been edited by computerfox: 25 May 2009 - 06:28 PM

[WolfCoder]

As for me, the only problem I have with Christianity is the mentality that they're right (many religions think of themselves as the one true religion). I'd rather not take a side here so I'm not going to become a part of any of those common religions. If God want's to tell me stuff, that's fine with her. Apart from that, I'd rather not wear a label.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 25 May 2009 - 07:01 PM

[computerfox]

wise choice wolf

[WolfCoder]

Yeah, well most Christians would tell me I'll burn in hell and stuff. Or that I've got demons following me. Or that there is demons in my video games (that's not a joke, someone actually asked me that).

It's pretty simple, really. There's no proof that no god and a god existing are either more likely, so it's a 50% chance. So while you don't have to have a religion, it makes sense to be as holy a person as possible through good acts and such.

[KYA]

WolfCoder, on 25 May, 2009 - 07:08 PM, said:

It's pretty simple, really. There's no proof that no god and a god existing are either more likely, so it's a 50% chance. So while you don't have to have a religion, it makes sense to be as holy a person as possible through good acts and such.

Except good works are worthless by themselves.

[computerfox]

yup pretty much. it's not about works, it's about the relationship with God. that's why i truly believe that Catholics are Christians because they base their faith on works, but the Bible states that if our best deeds are like dirty rags, then how can we seek salvation through work. it's through grace alone that we have salvation.

[Gorian]

mostyfriedman, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:00 PM, said:

the moral aspects of christianity, i have no problems with..i have a problem with the concept of salvation though in christianity, that if you believe that Jesus was put on the cross for your sins, then you're off the hook..i find it illogical that someone gets punished for someone else's sins..i mean have you ever been to a country where if you commit murder, they would execute another person as a substitute??, i dont think so...

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

computerfox, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:20 PM, said:

just because you wear the crucifix or go to mass or to church once a week doesn't make you a Christian. it's a relationship with God, reading the Bible, spending time with him as if he was right next to you. i know it's ironic for how i'm saying this shit, but i just hate when people think that they are Christians just because they do that crap. and you can tell if you have a healthy relationship with God by your every day life and actions. see that's what i mean, you judge what you don't understand.

This is exactly my point. Too many people think this is true. 'tis not. Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

mostyfriedman, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:24 PM, said:

i'm not judging what i dont understand..all this info i get is from christians, so i guess some christians dont know what their own faith is about and they were giving me false info..and as far as i can see very few christians in the world know their faith..but i still i think its illogical that jesus get crucified for the sins of others..a god that wants blood and has to sacrifice someone else cannot possibly be a god of mercy

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

WolfCoder, on 25 May, 2009 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yeah, well most Christians would tell me I'll burn in hell and stuff. Or that I've got demons following me. Or that there is demons in my video games (that's not a joke, someone actually asked me that).

It's pretty simple, really. There's no proof that no god and a god existing are either more likely, so it's a 50% chance. So while you don't have to have a religion, it makes sense to be as holy a person as possible through good acts and such.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This post has been edited by Gorian: 25 May 2009 - 08:22 PM