[Gorian]

Nay, I love people. I just get tired of people being lukewarm, or only following when it suits them. Come the storm and they give up and blame God for all problems.

[searockruz]

so i guess it was just a misunderstanding

This post has been edited by searockruz: 11 June 2009 - 11:13 AM

[Gorian]

it happens. Also, note "lukewarm". Read The Book of Revelation

[Johnnydangerously123]

Johnnydangerously123, on 11 Jun, 2009 - 12:07 AM, said:

searockruz, on 10 Jun, 2009 - 11:57 PM, said:

Quote

I am wondering what people think of Christianity, backed with a good case, which means "I don't like Christians because.........

this was your first post

@Johnnydangerously123
well when did i say you were a Christian
oh you got confused with Gorian

Nein, was not my first post re-read, you are rushing my friend, I never said that I did not start this conversation I have just added a few comments, and Never said "am wondering what people think of Christianity, backed with a good case, which means "I don't like Christians because.........be careful , for reading is important, look back and see who stated that. sorry to correct you.

OK, maybe I am a little thick minded...I understand where you were going with this. Your asking for us to complete the statement you started.....Thus here we go:
I don't like Christians because in general (and I hate to generalize but for the sake of this general conversation I must) most Christians Do Not follow what they preach. They go to church bringing their bibles with them that probably haven't been cracked open in years and profess they are faithful and do what the Bible tells them to (BS). Upon departure from church they turn on some heavy metal satin music and start singing to it. Upon returning to their homes they disrespect their wives, family and friends. The commandments tell us what to do and because Christianity teaches us that we have an out (Christ died for our Sins) most feel they can go right ahead and sin, 7 deadly sins utilized to the fullest in each of their pitiful lives. Thus a TRUE Christian knows they are sinners and TRY to do the right thing but we are only human so we back slide and have to get on our knees and repent asking for forgiveness for our sins.
Not sure if that hit the nails into his wrists (not hands) for if the were in his hands he would have fallen off the cross.....But I tried. No matter what we say, each and everyone of us has our own belifs and for me to force mine upon you is a mortal sin in my mind. So God Bless Brother

[WolfCoder]

Dantheman, on 10 Jun, 2009 - 06:38 PM, said:

..
I guess it's a 50% chance that we all have invisible nano-atomic chocolate bananas stuck in our rectums. I guess it's a 50% that tooth fairy is having sex with Santa Claus, right this moment. I guess it's a 50% chance that somewhere outside of the universe, there is a pink donkey that is sitting on a flying piano and playing Mozart's symphony no. 41.
...

You totally missed the point. Complete randomness or ridiculousness has nothing to do with morality or spirituality. And for that matter, logic has nothing to do with it either. I was showing that you don't need a reason to be good.

Arguing against me by spewing what you read in some discrete mathematics book looks as though you are using logic to justify that you can throw religion, or spirituality out and even go as far as to throw out simple morality as well. That book is meant for teaching you how to work with Discrete Mathematics in practical applications and I feel sorry if you truly will look to it for the answers to more spiritual questions.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 11 June 2009 - 04:15 PM

[Gorian]

Wow. You got it man. Exactly my point. Hot or cold. Far too many are lukewarm. You described the exact situation I was getting at. While no one is perfect, God sees the heart. A true effort, and a pure heart is rewarded. The worst sinner who repents and give his entire being into following Jesus, and following his commands, provided he is saved, is better than anyone with an evil, selfish, heart who uses God and his gift of salvation to justify their ungodly behaviour. Know then, that I do not judge anyone. God alone know the heart. But I can see from actions, from the fruit that is sown, that there are many people like this in the church. (The church being the body, not a building)

[WolfCoder]

Gorian, on 10 Jun, 2009 - 07:20 PM, said:

...The bible was written to be relevant to all generations. Kinda like backward compatibility. You try to play a windows XP Game on a 3.1 Operating System, chances are, it won't work. However, a 3.1 or 95 game will play on a Windows XP system. (Most...).

Religion isn't software. And in this day and age, it's going to be very difficult to write something now thats even relevant in 10 years let alone for something to be very very very old to be relevant now. You would have to sit there and grind up and convert the words into today's time before you can then interpret it, kind of a waste if you ask me.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 11 June 2009 - 04:26 PM

[Dantheman]

WolfCoder, on 11 Jun, 2009 - 03:09 PM, said:

Arguing against me by spewing what you read in some discrete mathematics book looks as though you are using logic to justify that you can throw religion, or spirituality out and even go as far as to throw out simple morality as well. That book is meant for teaching you how to work with Discrete Mathematics in practical applications and I feel sorry if you truly will look to it for the answers to more spiritual questions.

LOL, actually, I'm the one feeling sorry for you, because you think that the only place to learn Logic is the first chapter of a discrete mathematics textbook. Seriously, that's sad. Now, I don't know about your university, but my university teaches a class called Logic. The Logic that is a branch of philosophy. That's the Logic that I used. You're talking about basic propositional logic in discrete math, that has absolutely nothing to do here.

Anyway, back to the topic. You're putting God into the category of "spirituality and morality". I put God into the category of "complete randomness and ridiculousness". To me, the concept of God is the same thing as tooth fairy - came from human imagination, not based on any facts, never been proven. Now, if you can point out the difference between these two, then I will reconsider my outlook.

That's the difference between an agnostic (I was an agnostic for a long time) and an atheist. An agnostic puts God in the same category as Higgs Boson. An atheist puts God in the same category as a tooth fairy.

I gave you the reason for my position. I, in all honesty, do not see any difference between God and a fairy tale. I simply don't.

This post has been edited by Dantheman: 11 June 2009 - 09:22 PM

[Kanvus]

Only knowledge can be disputed. The simpler a thing is, the harder it is to express outwardly. Whatever God is to you is the foundation that is more basic than + and - energy. Internal dialogue can lead you to a closer understanding than any alleged record book and redfaced interrogation.

If you care to know God, then look inward. Sitting in a crowd of 6,000 in front of a commercial Reverend shows signs you don't mind what truth may be, as long as the version you get is comforting enough to evade the thought of vanishing into nothing after death; or if you will, fall under the mercy of two deity who will plan the rest of your etheric existence.

Only human ego is vain enough to make God in his own image down to the skin color and local culture. You say he is forgiving but you are not. Then how can he be anything like you, or you him? It is petty longing to try and objectify his being.

The OP's assumption is true. Programmers are a smart bunch, indeed. But existence is unintelligible. Thinking will only frustrate. The most effective search for God is silence and awareness. Jesus forgives man seven times because there are seven components to our human body. And the way our psyche is, only another can relieve our guilt. So we pay psychiatrists paychecks to do that for us, or accept that Jesus will regulate our conscience for us. It is a mind tool and a clever device. Thank the wise poets for calming man instead of being angry at religion for this and that.

This post has been edited by Kanvus: 12 June 2009 - 02:44 AM

[OliveOyl3471]

Quote

I don't like Christians because in general (and I hate to generalize but for the sake of this general conversation I must) most Christians Do Not follow what they preach. They go to church bringing their bibles with them that probably haven't been cracked open in years and profess they are faithful and do what the Bible tells them to (BS). Upon departure from church they turn on some heavy metal satin music and start singing to it. Upon returning to their homes they disrespect their wives, family and friends. The commandments tell us what to do and because Christianity teaches us that we have an out (Christ died for our Sins) most feel they can go right ahead and sin, 7 deadly sins utilized to the fullest in each of their pitiful lives. Thus a TRUE Christian knows they are sinners and TRY to do the right thing but we are only human so we back slide and have to get on our knees and repent asking for forgiveness for our sins.
Not sure if that hit the nails into his wrists (not hands) for if the were in his hands he would have fallen off the cross.....But I tried. No matter what we say, each and everyone of us has our own belifs and for
me to force mine upon you is a mortal sin in my mind.

I agree with you, although I do not always do what is right, myself.
I know that what I do is wrong, so why do I keep doing it?

Quote

Romans 7:
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 12 June 2009 - 12:07 PM

[Gorian]

*laughs heartily*

Olive my friend, you are on top of it!

[WolfCoder]

Dantheman, on 11 Jun, 2009 - 08:57 PM, said:

...
LOL, actually, I'm the one feeling sorry for you, because you think that the only place to learn Logic is the first chapter of a discrete mathematics textbook...

I do not think that.

Quote

Arguing against me by spewing what you read in some discrete mathematics book looks as though you are using logic to justify that you can throw religion, or spirituality out and even go as far as to throw out simple morality as well. That book is meant for teaching you how to work with Discrete Mathematics in practical applications and I feel sorry if you truly will look to it for the answers to more spiritual questions.

looks as though you are using logic to justify
Note the bold word used to show observation.

the only place to learn Logic is the first chapter of a discrete mathematics textbook...

The word only does not even appear in that quote.
The phrase first chapter does not even appear in that quote.

teaching you how to work with Discrete Mathematics
I'm being specific enough here to note it is Discrete Mathematics

Really, the only fallacy I can see is the implied idea that the book was a Discrete Mathematics book to be more specific, but that's not really the original point I was making. You really have a good skill for missing all my points, good job. Now let's continue with the discussion on Christianity and keep the lightly supported trolling to the minimum, hmm?

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 12 June 2009 - 07:59 PM

[Gorian]

True. If someone in this thread feels offended try and accomodate them. I am enjoying this, 'tis supposed to be a bit fun. A debate among friends.

[Dantheman]

WolfCoder, on 12 Jun, 2009 - 06:57 PM, said:

looks as though you are using logic to justify
Note the bold word used to show observation.

Yes, you're making an observation of me using a logic. But you were still positive that I used a "Discrete Mathematics" logic.

Quote

Really, the only fallacy I can see is the implied idea that the book was a Discrete Mathematics book.

Indeed it was. If you knew that the knowledge of Logic can come from numerous places, you wouldn't have made such retarded assumption.

Quote

But that's not really the original point I was making. You really have a good skill for missing all my points, good job.

That's why I said Anyway, back to the topic... and wrote the main point of my post. You completely ignored it. So I'm assuming you have no idea what you mean by "spirituality and morality" and can't provide your argument that the concept of God is any different from a fairy tale.

I addressed your point. You ignored mine. Good job, you have a good skill of avoiding arguments you can't defend.

This post has been edited by Dantheman: 12 June 2009 - 08:42 PM

[WolfCoder]

I addressed your point. You ignored mine. Good job, you have a good skill of avoiding arguments you can't defend.

Alright, you keep using my arguments and parrot them back at me, it's getting kind of old now.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 12 June 2009 - 10:30 PM