[KYA]

WolfCoder, on 25 May, 2009 - 07:08 PM, said:

It's pretty simple, really. There's no proof that no god and a god existing are either more likely, so it's a 50% chance. So while you don't have to have a religion, it makes sense to be as holy a person as possible through good acts and such.

Except good works are worthless by themselves.

[computerfox]

yup pretty much. it's not about works, it's about the relationship with God. that's why i truly believe that Catholics are Christians because they base their faith on works, but the Bible states that if our best deeds are like dirty rags, then how can we seek salvation through work. it's through grace alone that we have salvation.

[Gorian]

mostyfriedman, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:00 PM, said:

the moral aspects of christianity, i have no problems with..i have a problem with the concept of salvation though in christianity, that if you believe that Jesus was put on the cross for your sins, then you're off the hook..i find it illogical that someone gets punished for someone else's sins..i mean have you ever been to a country where if you commit murder, they would execute another person as a substitute??, i dont think so...

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

computerfox, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:20 PM, said:

just because you wear the crucifix or go to mass or to church once a week doesn't make you a Christian. it's a relationship with God, reading the Bible, spending time with him as if he was right next to you. i know it's ironic for how i'm saying this shit, but i just hate when people think that they are Christians just because they do that crap. and you can tell if you have a healthy relationship with God by your every day life and actions. see that's what i mean, you judge what you don't understand.

This is exactly my point. Too many people think this is true. 'tis not. Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

mostyfriedman, on 25 May, 2009 - 05:24 PM, said:

i'm not judging what i dont understand..all this info i get is from christians, so i guess some christians dont know what their own faith is about and they were giving me false info..and as far as i can see very few christians in the world know their faith..but i still i think its illogical that jesus get crucified for the sins of others..a god that wants blood and has to sacrifice someone else cannot possibly be a god of mercy

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

WolfCoder, on 25 May, 2009 - 06:08 PM, said:

Yeah, well most Christians would tell me I'll burn in hell and stuff. Or that I've got demons following me. Or that there is demons in my video games (that's not a joke, someone actually asked me that).

It's pretty simple, really. There's no proof that no god and a god existing are either more likely, so it's a 50% chance. So while you don't have to have a religion, it makes sense to be as holy a person as possible through good acts and such.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This post has been edited by Gorian: 25 May 2009 - 08:22 PM

[searockruz]

Quote

For all those who hate Christians

There are two type of christians
1. Born Christians [born as christians but do not follow what scripture says]

2. True Christians

so you hate both of them ?

Quote

For all those who take reference of Hitler or any other stupid person

have you heard about Mother Teresa
i think i dont need to introduce her

Quote

For those who think people can run away just by saying sorry

there a third place called Purgatory

@mostfriedman

Quote

a god that wants blood and has to sacrifice someone else cannot possibly be a god of mercy

god says you human will never understand my plans

its just like a child saying to her mom can i play with fire, and then starts crying after she stops him from playing, do you think the child is right if he says my mom is really bad

@ Woldcoder: i dont care if you hate Christians but what i want to say is that Christ had done nothing to you and i am sure atleast you wont hate him

[mostyfriedman]

Quote

god says you human will never understand my plans

its just like a child saying to her mom can i play with fire, and then starts crying after she stops him from playing, do you think the child is right if he says my mom is really bad

that is a very bad example, if god tells me dont do drugs for example then this example will hold, coz god knows that drugs are bad for me even if i'm not convinced. so it makes sense that god forbids drugs for humans..what doesnt make sense is killing someone else to pay for the sins of humans..i mean god is supposed to be all merciful, omnipresent and omnipotent etc etc..if your god has to kill someone to be able to forgive then he is not a true god and he is a deficient god because he is not able to forgive unless someone else is crucified

[searockruz]

well you can ask GOD for a detail explanation

can i say you are a devil if you destroy your own creation

well He could have done this

its simple logic
its better if one man dies rather that thousands and millions
well if Freedom fighters were like you, then what can i say now.......

This post has been edited by searockruz: 26 May 2009 - 06:18 AM

[Servatis]

Quote

can i say you are a devil if you destroy your own creation

isn't that what's happening these days? people all over the world killing each other for religion, power and money?

wouldn't a god be able to stop that?

I'm not dismissing your religion but some of your arguments are not really convincing.

isn't god the "shepherd"? the way some people describe him/her/it he seems more like a dictator forcing his will and way on the world.

[mostyfriedman]

searockruz, on 26 May, 2009 - 05:15 AM, said:

well you can ask GOD for a detail explanation

can i say you are a devil if you destroy your own creation

well He could have done this

its simple logic
its better if one man dies rather that thousands and millions
well if Freedom fighters were like you, then what can i say now.......

its not simple logic, it doesn't make sense that someone else would die for my sins..if i have sinned then i should repent and ask for forgiveness from god (not from a priest) and then god should forgive me coz i repented not coz someone else was sacrificed...

[searockruz]

dude you totally puzzled me

hope so you may find your answer here

http://www.leaderu.c...idjesusdie.html

there's nothing wrong in hating Christan's but don't bring God in middle
he has created the universe and he is not a stupid to make wrong decisions

@Servatis

have you read the old testament

how god helped his people specifically during Moses

This post has been edited by searockruz: 26 May 2009 - 09:27 AM

[mostyfriedman]

i dont hate god, i am a strong believer in god..but i just dont find the christian philosophy to be rational that's all

[searockruz]

@mostyfriedman

did you read the article ?

[NeoTifa]

There is a guy who has big stuffed animals and a cowboy hat that stands outside and holds a cross that is 2x bigger than he is and preaches to people outside of the BMV where I live. He has a row of styrophome tombstones that say "Allah", "Bhudda", "Satan", "Other religions" etc. It made me sick to my stomach seeing this. Seriously? Come on. And not to mention the crazy wacko that preaches in front of Oelman Hall in Wright State. They have cops and a gate to protect him from sane people. I heard he makes his wife practically dress like a Muslim woman and she's not allowed to speak unless he speaks to her. Rediculous imho.


((And Wolf, you think God's a girl too?! Does she play Skeeball? jk))

This post has been edited by NeoTifa: 26 May 2009 - 09:42 AM

[OliveOyl3471]

Gorian, on 25 May, 2009 - 10:16 PM, said:

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real //Jesus IS real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This is my belief as well. I agree with everything you said here (with one exception where I have commented it), and since I could not say it better myself I will just quote you.


I'll add this, though. The reason Jesus died for us (instead of us dying for our own sins) is because he was without sin himself, and that he has the power to raise from the dead. We cannot do that without His help. We are not without sin. We could only die for our own sins, not anyone else's. We cannot save ourselves, let alone anyone else. The wages (rightful earnings) for sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. It required a perfect sacrifice, which we are not.

It is a difficult subject to discuss here since there are so many who do not believe. But it's not my job to convince you, only to let you know who and what God is to me.
♥

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 26 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

[searockruz]

@NeoTifa

god didn't made any of this stupid rules.
its people who make it

A true religion is one which gives total freedom

[mostyfriedman]

OliveOyl3471, on 26 May, 2009 - 08:44 AM, said:

Gorian, on 25 May, 2009 - 10:16 PM, said:

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real //Jesus IS real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This is my belief as well. I agree with everything you said here (with one exception where I have commented it), and since I could not say it better myself I will just quote you.


I'll add this, though. The reason Jesus died for us (instead of us dying for our own sins) is because he was without sin himself, and that he has the power to raise from the dead. We cannot do that without His help. We are not without sin. We could only die for our own sins, not anyone else's. We cannot save ourselves, let alone anyone else. The wages (rightful earnings) for sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. It required a perfect sacrifice, which we are not.

It is a difficult subject to discuss here since there are so many who do not believe. But it's not my job to convince you, only to let you know who and what God is to me.
♥

then why was jesus baptized then in the jordan river or something if he was born without sin???