[xclite]

Right. That doesn't violate randomness.

[LoveIsNull]

Exactly. As I said;

Quote

It is random because it is without order, it is not predictable. That is not to say that there is not a certain degree of predictability, just as there seems to be varying degrees of randomness.

Some things might be more or less random, as in more or less predictable. But if you are pulling a name out of a hat, and especially if you are doing so without any fore-thought or better yet; with your eyes closed, then you are literally doing so randomly.
If you want to get all pseudophilosophical, or whatever, and start questioning free will and thoughts, how occurrences just sort of occur and how you have no control over anything and whether any of it really matters, man...?! Well, I suggest you solidify your mind and setting and only when you think you are ready look to the sacred mushrooms for the personal guidance and wisdom you seek.
And oh yeah, read that wiki, too.

[pakkuman_shinde]

Sacred mushrooms? That being a druggy joke?

I'm not on drugs, just a hippie:

A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles.

This post has been edited by pakkuman_shinde: 13 August 2009 - 05:11 PM

[macosxnerd101]

@Loveisnull: Two words: Quantum mechanics. Until you can disprove Newtonian physics and the heisenberg uncertainty principle, things are not random.

[xclite]

I think people are failing at interpreting random. Random does have anything to do with the certainty or possibility of the results.

In fact, the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle has a lot to do with randomness, and the criticisms OF the principle by Einstein were that "randomness is a reflection of our ignorance of some fundamental property of reality." So the Heisenberg Principle strengthens, not weakens, the case for randomness.

Sure, the outcome of all things is invariably influenced by the physical conditions - the way the cards were sorted, the locations of names in a hat. However, if you reach your hand in and grab one, you are randomly selecting one, whatever the previous conditions.

[macosxnerd101]

xclite, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 06:27 AM, said:

I think people are failing at interpreting random. Random does have anything to do with the certainty or possibility of the results.

In fact, the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle has a lot to do with randomness, and the criticisms OF the principle by Einstein were that "randomness is a reflection of our ignorance of some fundamental property of reality." So the Heisenberg Principle strengthens, not weakens, the case for randomness.

Sure, the outcome of all things is invariably influenced by the physical conditions - the way the cards were sorted, the locations of names in a hat. However, if you reach your hand in and grab one, you are randomly selecting one, whatever the previous conditions.

It only has to do with our ability to predict events. Just b/c we can't predict it doesn't mean it is random.

[xclite]

macosxnerd101, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 11:17 AM, said:

It only has to do with our ability to predict events. Just b/c we can't predict it doesn't mean it is random.

Right. That is exactly what we've been saying. It's like you ignored the last two pages.

[supersloth]

supersloth, on 25 Jul, 2009 - 10:33 PM, said:

maybe they should just rename them likely-to-be-very-difficult-to-predict-number-generators.

[xclite]

I'm okay with random. It's these girly-men that can't handle it!

[supersloth]

it's all semantics dudes.

[xclite]

It's always odd what sorts of understandings you can get when a language doesn't quite have the exact terms to identify something, or when something has 623462634634 different definitions.

[macosxnerd101]

xclite, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 09:30 AM, said:

macosxnerd101, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 11:17 AM, said:

It only has to do with our ability to predict events. Just b/c we can't predict it doesn't mean it is random.

Right. That is exactly what we've been saying. It's like you ignored the last two pages.

Maybe you understood it, but from my point of view, you were talking in a circle.

[xclite]

macosxnerd101, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 02:20 PM, said:

Maybe you understood it, but from my point of view, you were talking in a circle.

Predictability does not dictate randomness. That is what we have said. Something being predictable does not mandate that it is not random, and something being unpredictable is not necessarily random. Heisenberg's principle does not change this.

[LoveIsNull]

Quote

Sacred mushrooms? That being a druggy joke?

No joke. Seriously, they expand your mind. Just make sure you have someone on hand to pop the bubble and ease you down again, that is always the best part.

[macosxnerd101]

xclite, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 12:30 PM, said:

macosxnerd101, on 14 Aug, 2009 - 02:20 PM, said:

Maybe you understood it, but from my point of view, you were talking in a circle.

Predictability does not dictate randomness. That is what we have said. Something being predictable does not mandate that it is not random, and something being unpredictable is not necessarily random. Heisenberg's principle does not change this.

No, what I said was that Heisenberg's principle reinforced this. You were the one that implied that it changed this.