[kiasta]

I have a question. At what point in programming experience, if you learn on your own, would you consider professional? What I mean by that is hirable. I am learning how to program in C++ and I just want to know what exactly I need to know to start applying for jobs in this field. I know that I am not there yet, and I know I might need to learn a couple of different languages, but my passion is C++ it's what I really love to work with.

I know that going to school is a much better idea, however that is not an option for me because I have already been to college and owe to much on Finantial Aid (I went to Collins College for almost a year to be a "Game Designer", which in my opinion was a complete waste of time and money). I'm not looking to get into programming games right away, but I might get into that field later, after I get enough real world experience.

I just don't know where to set my goals. Is it to the point where I would be able to create a program like 7-zip singlehandedly? I've looked at the 7-zip source and I have to admit it's very intimidating and makes me feel hopeless, but I'm not going to give up. I really appreciate any kind of advice or at least a link or something to give me some kind of goal.

[modi123_1]

kiasta, on 22 Jan, 2010 - 10:22 AM, said:

I have a question. At what point in programming experience, if you learn on your own, would you consider professional? What I mean by that is hirable. I am learning how to program in C++ and I just want to know what exactly I need to know to start applying for jobs in this field. I know that I am not there yet, and I know I might need to learn a couple of different languages, but my passion is C++ it's what I really love to work with.

I know that going to school is a much better idea, however that is not an option for me because I have already been to college and owe to much on Finantial Aid (I went to Collins College for almost a year to be a "Game Designer", which in my opinion was a complete waste of time and money). I'm not looking to get into programming games right away, but I might get into that field later, after I get enough real world experience.

I just don't know where to set my goals. Is it to the point where I would be able to create a program like 7-zip singlehandedly? I've looked at the 7-zip source and I have to admit it's very intimidating and makes me feel hopeless, but I'm not going to give up. I really appreciate any kind of advice or at least a link or something to give me some kind of goal.

Are you trying to be a game developer, or a corporate programmer? Those have fairly different goals and aims..

[kiasta]

Well my overall goal in life is to be the owner of a large gaming company such as Blizzard or EA Games. But my shorter long term goal is to be a Game Developer. I wish to be in charge of a team, and make great games. My short term goal as of right now is just to be competant enough to get a job, the job really is not important (unless it really is?) I just need the "real life" experience before I delve into game programming.

[baavgai]

Professional doesn't necessarily imply skilled, just employed. You are a professional when someone pays you to do it. There are lots of professional programmers who are incompetent and lots of amateurs who are skilled.

If you're looking for competence, then you are a competent programmer when you can solve the problems you need to solve on your own. Various levels of accomplishment can be measured by how well you solve your problems.

There is no end to the road. Good programmers never stop learning. What's a required skill set today is the nostalgia of the future.

[kiasta]

Nice to see you again baavgai, thanks for the input. I guess there is no explicit answer to my vague question. I'll just continue learning as much as I can and when I can start making programs (like for instance 7-zip) I'll just go ahead and apply for something.

[modi123_1]

kiasta, on 22 Jan, 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:

Nice to see you again baavgai, thanks for the input. I guess there is no explicit answer to my vague question. I'll just continue learning as much as I can and when I can start making programs (like for instance 7-zip) I'll just go ahead and apply for something.

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But my shorter long term goal is to be a Game Developer.

If you are looking to program games wouldn't you want to make... games to prove your competence and not a knock off version of 7-zip?

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Well my overall goal in life is to be the owner of a large gaming company such as Blizzard or EA Games.

This job doesn't necessitate having knowledge of how to build games... manage people, deal with budgets, and cultivate talent.

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My short term goal as of right now is just to be competant enough to get a job, the job really is not important (unless it really is?) I just need the "real life" experience

This job.. is this any programming job or something game related?

[xTorvos]

I understand that people are trying to be helpful, but I was actually curious of the same thing and it seems as though the helpful people have strayed from answering the original question. So, maybe this would be a better way to ask it:

When you got your first job where you were actually paid to create code, how competent were you? What language were you using? What had you mastered prior to being hired?

For instance, do you think that you could get a job writing code after just mastering the for loop? What about classes? File I/O? What is it that makes a programmer sought in the job market?

(Not trying to thread-jack, just trying to get the answer to the original line of questioning.)

[kiasta]

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If you are looking to program games wouldn't you want to make... games to prove your competence and not a knock off version of 7-zip?

I was only using that as an example, and right now I am in fact working on an RPG, text-based of course.

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This job doesn't necessitate having knowledge of how to build games... manage people, deal with budgets, and cultivate talent.

True, but you should at least know how to create a game before you can tell someone else (or many others) what they should be doing, at least that's how I feel.

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This job.. is this any programming job or something game related?

Any entry-level programming job really, I'm not too worried if it has to to do with games or not, it will give me real world experiene. I'm just curious how competent you need to be ready for an entry level position in programming. I know that is still vague, and I should strive for games only but I'm more of a realist and I know how competative the Video Game industry is, so any entry-level programming job would be fine.

[modi123_1]

kiasta, on 22 Jan, 2010 - 03:55 PM, said:

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If you are looking to program games wouldn't you want to make... games to prove your competence and not a knock off version of 7-zip?

I was only using that as an example, and right now I am in fact working on an RPG, text-based of course.

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This job doesn't necessitate having knowledge of how to build games... manage people, deal with budgets, and cultivate talent.

True, but you should at least know how to create a game before you can tell someone else (or many others) what they should be doing, at least that's how I feel.

Quote

This job.. is this any programming job or something game related?

Any entry-level programming job really, I'm not too worried if it has to to do with games or not, it will give me real world experiene. I'm just curious how competent you need to be ready for an entry level position in programming. I know that is still vague, and I should strive for games only but I'm more of a realist and I know how competative the Video Game industry is, so any entry-level programming job would be fine.

Okay.. that at least gets things in a bit of perspective.

Text based? Oh come on Microsoft's XNA makes at least a visual game possible! Plus you pick up .NET time.

re: managing: Just as long as you are aware that could be a whole different path to that angle.

re: entry level job... Okay.. so you don't have a degree, right? You tried a 'game design' college, but that didn't work? So you have some credits?

Well.. how good is your basic knowledge? For loops, datatypes, common structures, and etc?

If you are just starting out in C++ you will have a long road to go on your own... You could attempt to freelance once you are confident in given a problem you can generate a solution and use that as a boot strap instead of formal education. *shrug* It's hard to say this will be a very profitable quick route especially in a down economy.

[kiasta]

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Text based? Oh come on Microsoft's XNA makes at least a visual game possible! Plus you pick up .NET time.

I suppose, I never really messed with anything other than C++ (well I tried C# and VB but I was not really into it.).

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re: managing: Just as long as you are aware that could be a whole different path to that angle.

Well, I suppose it would I guess I would probably need to get an MBA or something similat.

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re: entry level job... Okay.. so you don't have a degree, right? You tried a 'game design' college, but that didn't work? So you have some credits?

Well none that would transfer.. It's one of those "Private Colleges" that are expensive and worthless, unless you graduate there.

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Well.. how good is your basic knowledge? For loops, datatypes, common structures, and etc?

I am still learning, I know for loops well enough, strcts not so much, classes I'm still not good with yet. I'm not expecting to put out a resume soon, I have time and patience though.

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If you are just starting out in C++ you will have a long road to go on your own... You could attempt to freelance once you are confident in given a problem you can generate a solution and use that as a boot strap instead of formal education. *shrug* It's hard to say this will be a very profitable quick route especially in a down economy.

Yeah, money is an issue otherwise I would be in college right now working on my Bachelor's in Sofware Engineering, or perhaps just Computer Science. I appreciate the advice.

This post has been edited by kiasta: 22 January 2010 - 03:59 PM

[modi123_1]

<<Yeah, money is an issue otherwise I would be in college right now working on my Bachelor's in Sofware Engineering, or perhaps just Computer Science. I appreciate the advice.>>

Yeah, that's the miracle of student loans - take the cash now for school and pay'm back later.

[kiasta]

modi123_1, on 22 Jan, 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

<<Yeah, money is an issue otherwise I would be in college right now working on my Bachelor's in Sofware Engineering, or perhaps just Computer Science. I appreciate the advice.>>

Yeah, that's the miracle of student loans - take the cash now for school and pay'm back later.

I have private loans in default. I would love to get a student loan to go back to college but I just don't have the money to pay back the loans I received for Collins. I could try to get a pell grant I suppose but the problem with pell grants is they don't cover all the tuition.

I've downloaded XNA Studio and C# Express from Microsoft I'm going to try to see about making something.