It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

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#1 UrbanTwitch   User is offline

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It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Post icon  Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:21 PM

My Introduction to Web Design class teaches students how to create web pages in Dreamweaver? Is this an outdated method?

This post has been edited by UrbanTwitch: 01 March 2010 - 05:39 PM

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Replies To: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

#2 Sethro117   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:35 PM

I don't think so, unless you're using an old version of Dreamweaver then yes. I myself use a vareity of software for my web stuff. Sometimes I'll open up Notepad2, Visual Studio and of course even Dreamweaver. It all depends on your personal preference. While Dreamweaver offers the WYSIWYG, you can still handcode everything if you would like to.

Edited because I don't type so well.

This post has been edited by Sethro117: 01 March 2010 - 02:36 PM

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#3 bflosabre91   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:38 PM

i think the question is does the class teach you dreamweaver or does the class teach you to create web pages using dreamweaver? If it only teaches you how to use dreamweaver to create websites, then thats crap. Which is what i have seen happen. But if it teaches you web design and web programming and uses dreamweaver as the tool to create everything, then it is def not outdated.
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#4 dusk   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:41 PM

I write PHP all day using Dreamweaver CS 4 Code View. My boss creates XHTML & CSS all day using the Design view WYSIWYG portion of Dreamweaver CS 4. Definitely not outdated in my opinion.
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#5 Guest_William*


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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:41 PM

View PostUrbanTwitch, on 01 March 2010 - 01:21 PM, said:

My Introduction to Web Design class teaches students how to code web pages in Dreamweaver? Is this an outdated method?


I don't think this is an outdated method. At our college, one instructor in the Multimedia department teaches Web Design using Dreamweaver, focusing on the layout, typography and prototyping using Dreamweaver. I on the other hand in the Computer Systems dept. teach Beginning Web Pages in which I introduce students to the concepts of page structure and code using XHTML, CSS, and Javascript. I force them to use Notepad until they get the general syntax down, then let them use NotePad++ for code highlighting. However, I do not allow them to use a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) editor, which Dreamweaver can allow. Students who have taken the code class do much better in the class that uses Dreamweaver. Whenever they are stuck in a layout or design, they switch from design to code view and fix the problem with ease.

The main question is the focus of the class.. is it design and prototyping web layouts? Or is it teaching them page structure with code? The best advice is to teach the concepts, providing them with the basics of XHTML and CSS, then can break out later to learn prototyping and layout design (whether they use Design or Code view).

@wilzdezign
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#6 -=m0n1k3r=-   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:49 PM

Dreamweaver is very user friendly and easy to learn, so I think it's great for introductory courses. Once someone becomes more comfortable with development, they can make the choice whether or not to keep using it.

As mentioned above it really depends on the focus of the class, but as someone's first step into web design it's great.
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#7 erik.price   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:57 PM

I agree with bflosabre91 here. Dreamweaver can be an awesome tool, but totally neglecting teaching students HTML/CSS first really isn't beneficial.

My high school "web development" class (web development is in quotes, because it's a joke) is essentially dragging and dropping elements inside of Dreamweaver. I wouldn't have a problem if the students were at least introduced to HTML and company, and wrote at least one or two things by hand. HTML isn't even that difficult to pick up in the first place.
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#8 603   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:14 PM

I don't think it is outdated, but it doesn't teach good practices. I don't know about the latest version, but when I have to go into a web site and fix pages, or re-design templates and I have lines & lines of bloat from older versions, it's frustrating and difficult to like DW, as fa as I'm concerned.

You can teach someone just as good, if not better, if you teach them how to hand code, using an editor like TextMate or Coda. I think teaching hand coding, makes the developer/programmer, that much better than dragging & dropping. I'm not a big fan of drag & drop and the browser view (last time I knew) still wasn't a useful gauge of what the page/web document is going to look in a browser, never mind the many different kinds of browsers on the market today.

I teach people hand coding. It's gotten me results and we've used TextWrangler, or something comparable in the past that's free and cuts down on costs for the students.
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#9 BenignDesign   User is online

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:48 PM

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I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be taught at all, but I firmly believe students need to be taught to hand code in a text editor before being introduced to WYSIWYG editors.

While it is true you CAN use Dreamweaver as a text editor, one has to wonder how many instructors actually teach it this way?

If you can't create a web page WITHOUT Dreamweaver, you can't create a web page. Period.
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#10 macosxnerd101   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:28 PM

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I think the keyword here is context. What is the context you are using Dreamweaver in? From an IT professional standpoint, Dreamweaver should be used as a tool to aid in code writing, much like an IDE would for a programming language (like NetBeans for Java). However, if one doesn't know what he or she is doing, it becomes a crutch. In the context of my Web DnD class, the only thing we use it as a crutch for are the Dreamweaver/JS behaviors, simply b/c we don't have time to go into actual JS during the year, as we do HTML and CSS for the first semester, then PHP and MySQL for the second semester, plus the fact that my class hates programming. On top of that, as much as I would like to learn JS, I simply don't have the time given that I have to learn advanced PHP in a few weeks to get through an advanced project while the rest of my class is doing if statements, loops and functions.

Now on the flipside, from a small business or non-profit perspective with no in-house IT people, Dreamweaver's extras seem more enticing. Things like templates, behaviors, drag-and-drop layouts, etc. allow these code illiterates to design a website with not much more than an eye for graphical design and a familiarity with a WYSIWYG editor. In turn, the organization isn't expending much more than anywhere from a few hours' to maybe a week's pay based on the size of the site, and they get a website of appropriate caliber for the size and scope of their organization. And the cost of having an employee do such is probably going to be a lot cheaper than outsourcing the site. But again, these code illiterates probably aren't going to be doing this on a fairly regular basis for a living, so Dreamweaver as a crutch works.
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#11 Guest_Karl Gephart*


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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:42 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 01 March 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think the keyword here is context. What is the context you are using Dreamweaver in? From an IT professional standpoint, Dreamweaver should be used as a tool to aid in code writing, much like an IDE would for a programming language (like NetBeans for Java). However, if one doesn't know what he or she is doing, it becomes a crutch. In the context of my Web DnD class, the only thing we use it as a crutch for are the Dreamweaver/JS behaviors, simply b/c we don't have time to go into actual JS during the year, as we do HTML and CSS for the first semester, then PHP and MySQL for the second semester, plus the fact that my class hates programming. On top of that, as much as I would like to learn JS, I simply don't have the time given that I have to learn advanced PHP in a few weeks to get through an advanced project while the rest of my class is doing if statements, loops and functions.

Now on the flipside, from a small business or non-profit perspective with no in-house IT people, Dreamweaver's extras seem more enticing. Things like templates, behaviors, drag-and-drop layouts, etc. allow these code illiterates to design a website with not much more than an eye for graphical design and a familiarity with a WYSIWYG editor. In turn, the organization isn't expending much more than anywhere from a few hours' to maybe a week's pay based on the size of the site, and they get a website of appropriate caliber for the size and scope of their organization. And the cost of having an employee do such is probably going to be a lot cheaper than outsourcing the site. But again, these code illiterates probably aren't going to be doing this on a fairly regular basis for a living, so Dreamweaver as a crutch works.

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#12 erik.price   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:54 PM

Why did you just quote macosxnerd101's post?

edit: 2000!

This post has been edited by erik.price: 01 March 2010 - 04:55 PM

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#13 UrbanTwitch   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:38 PM

View Posterik.price, on 01 March 2010 - 03:54 PM, said:

Why did you just quote macosxnerd101's post?

edit: 2000!

Congrats! :-)

Looks like this is turning out to be quite a discussion! I'll put my thoughts in a bit later. ;-)

edit: What's a featured post?

This post has been edited by UrbanTwitch: 01 March 2010 - 05:38 PM

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#14 KYA   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:42 PM

It means it's on the front page and if you receive email updates it'll be in a newsletter.
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#15 SixOfEleven   User is offline

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Re: It's 2010. Should Dreamweaver Still Be Taught?

Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:56 PM

A featured post is a post that team members believe is of interest to the members of the site at visitors of the site. They are displayd on the home page of the site.

Edit:
KYA answered while I was busy.
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