[lordofduct]

You know, I've never actually investigated the laws about free interns. Obviously there is laws about it because I know there are laws that you can't employ someone at 0 pay (that is minimum wage laws), there must be legislation that basically makes exceptions for it. Yey, something to research today!

[edit]
first resource I found:

Six criteria to be considered a trainee (intern) in a for-profit organization:

Quote

1. The training, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the
employer, is similar to what would be given in a vocational school or academic
educational instruction;
2. The training is for the benefit of the trainees;
3. The trainees do not displace regular employees, but work under their close
observation;
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the
activities of the trainees, and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually
be impeded;
5. The trainees are not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the training
period; and
6. The employer and the trainees understand that the trainees are not entitled to
wages for the time spent in training.

source: http://wdr.doleta.go...EGL12-09acc.pdf

Number 4 I find the most intriguing... especially the, "and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually be impeded", part.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 17 June 2011 - 09:47 AM

[macosxnerd101]

xclite, on 17 June 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

They can get away with it so they do it, although I thought I heard some rumblings of state legislation restricting such practices a while ago.

no2pencil had a thread asking about this a year ago. I posted a link to an article about this legislation there.

[ccubed]

Not to be the one person in this entire discussion who doesn't want to diss customers (And i've had my stupid ones), but you realize google has a mobile api for maps and use to have one for wave. So that was entirely possible depending on when that guy asked. now? no. Because WAVE is gone and the mobile dev with it.

But yeah, they don't really know what they want, that's why they pay us. We are essentially paid for knowing more than the average person. I firmly believe that anyone can be taught to code, but no one wants to be, so no one is. So instead, they pay us large sums of money to develop things that probably take us about an hour and some old fashioned elbow grease.

[Camerosaurus Rex]

ccubed, on 17 June 2011 - 10:51 AM, said:

But yeah, they don't really know what they want, that's why they pay us. We are essentially paid for knowing more than the average person. I firmly believe that anyone can be taught to code, but no one wants to be, so no one is. So instead, they pay us large sums of money to develop things that probably take us about an hour and some old fashioned elbow grease.

Ahhh, yes! The classic collision and teaching one to fish and bringing a horse to water!
I'm just glad that Dreamweaver costs so much, Now we just need to do something about that damned Wordpress...

[hookiethe1]

This is nothing unusual and we're certainly not special. Just like people ask mechanics questions about their cars, doctors questions about their weird rash, and lawyers questions about what kind of sentence their cousin could be looking at, they come to us to ask computer questions, because they do not know themselves.
I don't see what the big deal is about this.
And just like if you went to a builder and asked him to construct an impossible design he would tell you it's impossible, it's our job as contractors to tell clients when what they want is impossible, though generally the better approach is to offer them some alternative, rather than a brick wall.

Are we gods? Of course not. Do we know more than the average person about computers and software? Yes, that's why they come to us.

[modi123_1]

Yes there is quite a volume of pride and hubris comparing us to equals of gods. It reminds me of a quote from Larry Wall.

Quote

The three chief virtues of a programmer are: Laziness, Impatience and Hubris.
- Larry Wall (creator of Perl)

[MATTtheSEAHAWK]

ishkabible, on 16 June 2011 - 11:10 PM, said:

my friends have asked me to make hacks for them to get around the schools site blocker. the reason they asked wasn't becuase i knew how to program but becuase i just knew how to use a computer. anytime someone needed something fixed, i did it. when people wanted to buy a new computer, they asked me what to buy. i don't have clients, but i have friends that have asked for some ridicules things for sure.

That's exactly what people think about me. Since I can fix computers and program that I'm a super 1337 haxz0rz.

[Creecher]

This happens on an (almost) daily basis around my school.

My teachers know I'm good with computers, some of them have seen what I can do, others have heard about what I can do. If a computer fucks up, yeah I can probably fix it, if it's a software problem.


I can't remember how many times I heard the following sentence - "Hey, Logan! You're good with computers, right? Come help me fix this blah blah blah chip connector fan blah blah nodes blah blah power supply."

My only response is "I don't know much about hardware, is it plugged in right?"

But if their computer blue-screens, or PowerPoint magically freezes during their 700 slide presentation about the digestive system, I can fix that right quick, and could even crap out some code to stop it from happening again. Don't ask me how I did it, I'm a mother fucking wizard, ph34r my l33t sk1llz or i h4x0rs ur facebook.



Fuck.


edit: grammar fixes, got to typing a bit to fast...

This post has been edited by NeverPool: 17 June 2011 - 08:00 PM

[ishkabible]

hardware issues are generally simpler for me. either i can fix it easily by changing something or it's toast and i have no hope of fixing it.

[Martyr2]

I had to pay to be part of a co-op program in university. Being an international student it came to thousands to have the university help me land a position to work for through the summer. I got paid from the company, but in the end I still wouldn't break even. It all depends on who you intern with and everything. Obviously if you land an internship with a silicon valley tech giant, do it for free. The goal is that after you are done you have a top company on your resume. In other words, a promise to throw their name behind your work is what you should strive for. Pay is just icing on the cake.

Oh and btw... when I code it is magic. Probably why all the clients are wanting you guys to do the magic too. My bad.

[KYA]

Wingardeum leviosa!

Boom, RC 1 done.

[Programmist]

codeprada, on 16 June 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:

Me: Java isn't my field of expertise....

If it's simply a matter of you lacking certain knowledge you can always sub-contract. But if after thorough discussion with the client you ascertain that their wants are out of snyc with reality then it's your job to help them manage their expectations. Show them something that IS possible and will still solve their problem.

[codeprada]

I should have phrased that a bit differently.

codeprada said:

Mobile development isn't my field of expertise...

The thing with sub-contracts is you become the `middleman` so you must pay whoever you've hired and if your client double crosses you or anything you're going to take the loss.
But hey there's contracts and lawyers right...

[AlbuquerqueApache]

"Like the man says, no problems just solutions"

heh...Tron (1982)

[Camerosaurus Rex]

codeprada, on 18 June 2011 - 06:47 AM, said:

I should have phrased that a bit differently.

codeprada said:

Mobile development isn't my field of expertise...

The thing with sub-contracts is you become the `middleman` so you must pay whoever you've hired and if your client double crosses you or anything you're going to take the loss.
But hey there's contracts and lawyers right...

The thing about web design is that there are many ways to make that clients can hijack my work. If a client disagrees to these methods I have to turn him or her down because I have too much to lose and it kinda looks suspicious...