[lordofduct]

Your style of rhetoric remind me of this neo-fascist I went to high school with.

Your idea of financial and systematic discrimination of people for their choices so as to coerce masses into doing the 'right thing'.



He was a bit more extreme though. He believed in cameras in your house, and anti-masturbation laws.

He also chased quarters kids would roll down the hall, he would bark as he stumbled after it.

The kid was 'special' if I remember correctly.

[xclite]

Ah I definitely agree that personal experience is irrelevant. Anecdotes should be ignored in arguments about statistics.

I'm a bigger fan of health insurance rewarding you for a healthy lifestyle. Oh you work out? Here's a discount. Oh, you're a nonsmoker? Here's a discount. Drink < x times per month? Discount. Bike to work? Discount. It's hard to prove those things, though.

[BenignDesign]

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

BenignDesign, on 22 June 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

I was referencing personal experience. From where do your references come?

Personal experience is irrelevant.

Your planet must be a hellishly fucked up place to live.

And all those diabetics... screw em. We all know there's no genetic component involved. And those sniveling, whiny kids with 'juvenile' diabetes... fuck them, too. They did it to themselves.

Fucking dolt.

[no2pencil]

Why can't people just go to the doctor & pay their bill? Why do we need this governed for us? Why does anyone need an organization to determine discounts based on our lifestyles?

Just as the mighty Roman Empire fell, so will the United States. Our own corruption & false sense of entitlement is going to be our undoing.

[xclite]

YES I didn't want to bring up diabetes, but it's a great example. Diabetes makes it MUCH more difficult to control your weight and brings on a host of problems. It's also genetic. Diabetic people are likely to be obese. How can you tell when something is a lifestyle choice? Obesity also causes diabetes, so how do you know when to blame somebody for their fatness?

[no2pencil]

xclite, on 22 June 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

so how do you know when to blame somebody for their fatness?

You don't. You mind your own fucking business.

[macosxnerd101]

My dad has diabetes. He had it since he was 7, and was the second person in Richmond to get an insulin pump. He also lives a normal lifestyle. He lives a healthy lifestyle and has the highest possible health rating for insurance given his precondition. One thing he always says is that if he had to have a disease, at least it's diabetes b/c he can manage it.

Quote

Why can't people just go to the doctor & pay their bill? Why do we need this governed for us?

Don't even get me started. I will write a rant longer than anything LoD has posted on DIC to date.

[xclite]

no2pencil, on 22 June 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

xclite, on 22 June 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

so how do you know when to blame somebody for their fatness?

You don't. You mind your own fucking business.

Exactly. They're also already paying for it, you can rest assured.

[CTphpnwb]

I'm not against people with Type I diabetes, but you aren't born with Type II diabetes. You earn it. I'm just saying that if you choose to earn it, or lung cancer, or other lifestyle diseases you should foot the bill. Not me. Isn't that what so-called Conservatives are for? Don't they want individual responsibility?

[xclite]

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm not against people with Type I diabetes, but you aren't born with Type II diabetes. You earn it.

Wrong.

In fact, according to the American Diabetes Association:

Quote

Type 2 diabetes has a stronger link to family history and lineage than type 1

Also:
http://dx.doi.org/10...betes.45.9.1279

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

Isn't that what so-called Conservatives are for? Don't they want individual responsibility?

So you pay your doctor's bill, and that's your responsibility. Enforcing such responsibility through the government is NOT what conservatives are about.

Edit: It's also realllly offensive that you think diabetes is something somebody earns. Learn something before making those accusations.

This post has been edited by xclite: 22 June 2011 - 09:41 AM

[macosxnerd101]

Quote

you should foot the bill

I agree here, but it doesn't have to be monetary, at least entirely. I don't see why people who receive treatment can't volunteer or help out at the hospital or doctor's office. Do some janitorial or maintenance. Take food to other patients. Clean out bed pans. Do laundry. I'm sure there are 1000 other things to be done at a hospital, and it frees up financial resources to commit to medical treatment. Not saying it'll fix everything, but it could very well help. That's what people don't understand about healthcare reform. It's too big an issue to fix in one shot. Making things better will go a long way though to improving the system. Look to improve, not repair.

[CTphpnwb]

xclite, on 22 June 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm not against people with Type I diabetes, but you aren't born with Type II diabetes. You earn it.

Wrong.

In fact, according to the American Diabetes Association:

Quote

Type 2 diabetes has a stronger link to family history and lineage than type 1

Also:
http://dx.doi.org/10...betes.45.9.1279

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

Isn't that what so-called Conservatives are for? Don't they want individual responsibility?

So you pay your doctor's bill, and that's your responsibility. Enforcing such responsibility through the government is NOT what conservatives are about.

Edit: It's also realllly offensive that you think diabetes is something somebody earns. Learn something before making those accusations.

Family history != hereditary
Fat people have fat pets. No genetics are involved.

Nobody's talking about enforcing responsibility through government. I'm talking about ensuring that government is not paying the bill for irresponsible behavior. You can buy all the cigarettes you like as long as you can pay their true cost.

[xclite]

CTphpnwb, on 22 June 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

Family history != hereditary
Fat people have fat pets. No genetics are involved.

You ignored 2/3 of that post that is explicitly hereditary.

Quote

There is a stronger inheritance pattern for type 2 diabetes. Those with first-degree relatives with type 2 diabetes have a much higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes, increasing with the number of those relatives. Concordance among monozygotic twins is close to 100%, and about 25% of those with the disease have a family history of diabetes. Genes significantly associated with developing type 2 diabetes, include TCF7L2, PPARG, FTO, KCNJ11, NOTCH2, WFS1, CDKAL1, IGF2BP2, SLC30A8, JAZF1, and HHEX.[25][26] KCNJ11 (potassium inwardly rectifying channel, subfamily J, member 11), encodes the islet ATP-sensitive potassium channel Kir6.2, and TCF7L2 (transcription factor 7–like 2) regulates proglucagon gene expression and thus the production of glucagon-like peptide-1.[2

Diabetes is a condition which is very influenced by your habits. That does not mean you can ignore the genetic causes.

This post has been edited by xclite: 22 June 2011 - 09:56 AM

[CTphpnwb]

That post is about a minuscule cohort and even it only suggests that heredity may play a small role. The fact is that the doctor's I work with accept that exercise can reduce and even eliminate diabetes in their patients. They also accept as fact that it can prevent it. Unfortunately, they also accept as fact that people are not likely to be responsible unless it affects their wallets, which is why there is a move to adjust copays. Read up on "Value based insurance design."

[xclite]

The problem with saying things like "can reduce" is that you're already agreeing with me. How do you separate those who induced Diabetes with their unhealthy lifestyles from those who live a healthy lifestyle but still get it? For those who are still exercising, but can't get rid of it? Diabetes is not something that is universally a victim's fault.

Also, they do take a hit in the wallet. If you think insurance covers the expenses of diabetes, you're kidding yourself.

My last quote is not about a miniscule cohort.

This post has been edited by xclite: 22 June 2011 - 10:02 AM