The Demands of the Games Industry

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#1 abinash3333   User is offline

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The Demands of the Games Industry

Post icon  Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:10 AM

Within the games industry is there more demand for programmers, artists or other visual effects experts?
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#2 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:16 AM

For Game Programming you want to learn how to code in C++ and maybe C# with XNA.
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#3 stayscrisp   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:54 AM

*Changed to more descriptive title*

Great topic!

I'm gonna go ahead and say it's most likely programmers, this is because their role encompasses so much of the overall development. Tools, physics, graphics, GUI's etc.. are all the realm of the programmer and the more there are the more advanced a game can become.
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#4 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 05:16 AM

View Postabinash3333, on 13 July 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

Within the games industry is there more demand for programmers, artists or other visual effects experts?

Well, it actually depends on where you live, the number of game studios available, and the types of projects they work on. To find out what is look at the studios around you or nearest to you or where you are prepared to relocate to.

There is a general looming problem for future game programming in that the quality of recent, current and future graduate game programmers are actually not skilled enough to even start out in game programming professionally; the numbers of those good enough are simply too few.

When looking for a job in the industry work to your skill set rather than what is in demand (if that is what you're asking), and if you are a lucky individual with both artistic and programming skills focus on the stronger skill. Remember that in the industry they only want the best of the best.

Good luck.
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#5 Kilorn   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 05:41 AM

In agreement with stayscrisp here. There are many different specialized areas under each of those umbrellas that one could strive to be. For instance you could be a character modeler/animater, level designer, special effects artist, etc. all of these which fit under the artist umbrella.

Along the same line of discussion, you could also extend this question to ask which specialists are in higher demand for each area of game design. For instance, are environmental artists more in demand than character modelers? Are AI programmers more in demand that tools programmers?

I think the best thing to do is find an area of programming that you really enjoy doing, it could be more than one as well, no reason to limit yourself to only being a GUI programmer, and search for companies that need help in that, or those, particular areas. Once you get a job with a game development company, while working for the company, try to find weak spots in the company's team and see if there is any way that you could help fill the gaps and strengthen the entire team by taking on extra duties, assuming it doesn't get in the way of you completing the tasks that your title requires you to do. Not only will this help out the overall team, but your employer will be impressed, which may lead to more pay, more benefits, or even a promotion.
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#6 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:45 AM

View PostKilorn, on 13 July 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

In agreement with stayscrisp here. There are many different specialized areas under each of those umbrellas that one could strive to be. For instance you could be a character modeler/animater, level designer, special effects artist, etc. all of these which fit under the artist umbrella.

But some specialisms are not in as high demand as others, for instance gameplay programmers and graphics specialists are in more demand than say physics programmers simply because middleware handles a lot of physics nowadays. It isn't true to say that because there are more specialist areas there is more demand.

View PostKilorn, on 13 July 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Along the same line of discussion, you could also extend this question to ask which specialists are in higher demand for each area of game design. For instance, are environmental artists more in demand than character modelers? Are AI programmers more in demand that tools programmers?

Can't see you point here.

View PostKilorn, on 13 July 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

I think the best thing to do is find an area of programming that you really enjoy doing, it could be more than one as well, no reason to limit yourself to only being a GUI programmer, and search for companies that need help in that, or those, particular areas. Once you get a job with a game development company, while working for the company, try to find weak spots in the company's team and see if there is any way that you could help fill the gaps and strengthen the entire team by taking on extra duties, assuming it doesn't get in the way of you completing the tasks that your title requires you to do. Not only will this help out the overall team, but your employer will be impressed, which may lead to more pay, more benefits, or even a promotion.

I doesn't work that way in a game company! Not at all! Yes, if they find a need within the company for a programmer with a special skillset they will look internally first to see if anyone is available. Failing that then they will advertise the post by various means to look for candidates. What you have said in this last bit is downright wrong. Sorry...
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#7 stayscrisp   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:56 PM

Quote

It isn't true to say that because there are more specialist areas there is more demand.


It's also not true to say there isn't, from a logical stand point it is true.

Think about it, more specialist roles are a result of increasing complexity. Add more complexity onto that and the demand for those roles and the number of people needed to achieve that complexity will get higher.

Also I agree with Kilorn 100%, I'm sure if you show an initiative and try to do your best and become invaluable to the company then of course you have a chance of promotion, this is true of any business or job role. You even said so:

Quote

Yes, if they find a need within the company for a programmer with a special skillset they will look internally first to see if anyone is available.


Voila! Kilorn's advice would make anyone an attractive candidate.
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#8 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 01:10 PM

View Poststayscrisp, on 13 July 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

Quote

It isn't true to say that because there are more specialist areas there is more demand.


It's also not true to say there isn't, from a logical stand point it is true.

Think about it, more specialist roles are a result of increasing complexity. Add more complexity onto that and the demand for those roles and the number of people needed to achieve that complexity will get higher.

Also I agree with Kilorn 100%, I'm sure if you show an initiative and try to do your best and become invaluable to the company then of course you have a chance of promotion, this is true of any business or job role. You even said so:

Quote

Yes, if they find a need within the company for a programmer with a special skillset they will look internally first to see if anyone is available.


Voila! Kilorn's advice would make anyone an attractive candidate.

This is not how things work in the games industry, and I'm speaking experience. Your logic, although appears sound is completely flawed.

Yes, games are increasing in complexity to the point where game titles will exceed budget if a team of physics programmers, for example were hired versus using licensed middleware to prevent the cost of reinventing the wheel. Secondly, because the complexity of games is growing significantly in a much shorter period of time than years ago, so game projects could very well never be completed if all engines were written from scratch. Why do you think there is a boom in middleware companies right now? For this very reason.

Feel free to disagree with me, but my statements are based on fact and direct observation.

If you genuinely believe that the more specialisms within a role in games means more jobs, then you're in for a nasty shock asking yourself why you can't/ or find it difficult to get a job when so many roles are available. :)

And finally! the title of game programmer assumes skill in every area of game development - even those with specific roles in AI or whatever.
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#9 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:50 PM

I have to ask Sir Butch, what concepts are used in Game Programming? Is it really different than application development? And is it really harder? Does one need insane math skills to code a game? I am really interested in game development.
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#10 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 04:55 AM

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 14 July 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

I have to ask Sir Butch, what concepts are used in Game Programming?

All programming concepts used for other software development are used in games with some tweaks that need to be made for optimization. What makes game programming really difficult is getting features and performance very cleverly coded, and getting these components to work together reliably. This is where the extra concepts of pathfinding algorithms and efficients graphics rendering, etc. come in.

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 14 July 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

Is it really different than application development?

Yes, very. Remember that with games you are working on a multimedia application that frequently switches modes internally to make it look like everything work together. As every programmer knows very well, although computer can do fantastic things they have zero intelligence, so everything must be explained in code in fine detail to ensure specifications of the game are met. Game programming is a big challenge no doubt. When working with applications, although in themselves complicated, the variety of tools and languages out there for rapid application development simply are not available to games for the larger part.

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 14 July 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

And is it really harder? Does one need insane math skills to code a game? I am really interested in game development.

These questions are kind of answered above, and research into developing games will answer them better than I can in a quick post here. What makes a good game programmer is a solid education plus natural talent with an analytical mind. I'm sorry to say that from what I'm seeing on these forums (and I don't particularly mean anyone), most will never see the light of day in a game studio, simply because they haven't learned the lesson of being self-starters - and that is a vital skill that is required when developing games.

Good luck! :)
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#11 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 04:57 PM

Natural talent for what? Being a passionate gamer not enough? I want to see the light of day in a game development company! When I buy a pc I'll set my heart to make a game with graphics.

This post has been edited by fromTheSprawl: 14 July 2011 - 04:58 PM

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#12 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:31 PM

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 15 July 2011 - 12:57 AM, said:

Natural talent for what?

The skills required to make games.

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 15 July 2011 - 12:57 AM, said:

Being a passionate gamer not enough?

Nowhere near enough! Making games is completely different to playing them. Did you know that a lot of people in the games industry actually don't like video games? They like the challenge of making them! So when someone comes along and says "I've been playing Zelda since before I was born" actually turns studios off to candidates. If you want to make games to have to show you like making them, not just playing them.

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 15 July 2011 - 12:57 AM, said:

I want to see the light of day in a game development company! When I buy a pc I'll set my heart to make a game with graphics.

You should set your heart on making a good game with graphics! Google other demos that people have made and create a demo of your own that beats theirs in terms of overall quality and complexity.
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#13 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:09 PM

So does this mean a game company would only take an applicant seriously with his/her game if it is with graphics? How much graphics are we talking here? Are 2D shooters enough? The problem I have is I could make a game in console but I do not have any idea how to make one with graphics or sprites. One of the problems I also have is that I don't know how to make sprites.
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#14 anonymous26   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:36 PM

View PostfromTheSprawl, on 15 July 2011 - 02:09 AM, said:

So does this mean a game company would only take an applicant seriously with his/her game if it is with graphics? How much graphics are we talking here? Are 2D shooters enough? The problem I have is I could make a game in console but I do not have any idea how to make one with graphics or sprites. One of the problems I also have is that I don't know how to make sprites.

Everybody who develops games started out not knowing how to make them, ten years ago I had zero idea myself. I didn't come on forums expecting others to tell me how to make games. I put months then years in research from buying and reading books on game development, joined and ran organizations that attracted the attention of pro game developers and made friends in those circles. My first ever game was in 3D using OpenGL with AI, audio and everything. That was my very first attempt!

It's really quite simple - if you want to make games you have to be prepared to carry the burden of teaching yourself how to make them well. So many people want to make games that there is no patience or sympathy for those who come with "I don't knows...". It probably sounds harsh but that is the way it is. If you don't know then go and teach yourself.

There is also no specific formula for making a great demo beyond making sure that you create something that impresses significantly. Just making a demo with graphics is very unlikely to cut it.

This post has been edited by ButchDean: 14 July 2011 - 06:38 PM

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#15 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: The Demands of the Games Industry

Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:41 PM

Wow that is truly inspiring! guess I will start reading soon. :)
C++ is the de facto language for game programming right?
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