[ccubed]

Visual Studio 2010 is the best. I like the interface and the colors and general layout have gone a super long way towards being good.

Notepad++ is great for quick and dirty editing and I use it for all of my web development. No need for big hulky ides there, I was raised when notepad was it. (Edit: though I may have used html kit once or twice.)

Dreamweaver is good for positioning. That's all I use it for. I use the other tools (Yeah photoshop) more than Dreamweaver.

But really, I don't use anything else. I have eclipse for android dev, but I like the fact that visual studio interfaces with absolutely all of the MS packages.

And if it's python, I don't like IDEs for that, but if I had to pick, Stani.

This post has been edited by ccubed: 17 August 2011 - 04:13 PM

[ishkabible]

lol, IDE wars are great. i think most people simply assume that what your using is the best. i tried using emacs and thought it was an ungodly complicated mess of features that simply got in my way rather than helping me. others swear by it, i find i like a nice basic text editor like notepad++ and using just basic key-combos(copy,paste,save) to do things rather than all the other stuff. to someone else emacs powerful set of macros makes things simpler.

[GunnerInc]

NeoTifa, on 17 August 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

the Marines say "Hoorah!"

Eh, No they don't.... it's OOHRAH! No "H", been out of the Corps for 17 years and I don't think they have changed it


Anyways, my fav IDE is RadASM

This post has been edited by GunnerInc: 17 August 2011 - 06:21 PM

[KYA]

I can't remember who said it or exactly how it went, but the paraphrase is "I use the *nix environment as my IDE".

vim, grep, pipes, mmmmm

[Sn1pShow]

Emacs FTW

This post has been edited by Sn1pShow: 17 August 2011 - 06:43 PM

[Programmist]

Spring STS. Fantastic for Spring/Hibernate and Groovy/Grails apps. IntelliJ IDEA is ok, but not worth the money IMO.

Edit: Oh yeah, the vim/eMacs vs IDE argument. I'd forgotten about this because 100% of the professional developers/consultants I've worked with over the past several years use an IDE. Not because IDEs are popular, but because they enhance productivity if used correctly.

Vim is still my favorite text editor on Linux and is great for quick shell/Perl scripts or small C programs, but that's about it.

This post has been edited by Programmist: 17 August 2011 - 07:08 PM

[Sergio Tapia]

Quote

Dreamweaver is good for positioning.

Even better, use Firebug (or whatever equivalent). You can edit the CSS and see the results IMMEDIATELY in the real browser. I don't know what I'd do without it.

[jon.kiparsky]

I use vi because
a. I hate the mouse-based interface. It slows me down - taking my hand off the keyboard and rolling this bar of soap around until it's on top of one of the things that I'm allowed to do... I dunno, it's just so much easier to type
:%s/foo/bar/g

than to call up a replace window or mouse over to the "refactor" options to rename this thing or whatever.

this is probably to a large degree because

b. I'm pretty quick with the vi command set. I think it, and it happens. Done.

c. I'm also a bit of a control freak - I don't want the machine to write the code for me. I don't like having options popping up when I don't want them to, and I don't want the machine putting words in my mouth. It's actually easier for me to type out the method name or the variable name than to figure out when the machine is going to decide to jump in - I've got a thought in my head, then it's on the screen, and the machine stays out of the way

d. I've used the UNIX platform for longer, most likely, than many of the people in this discussion have been alive. (started in 1985). Not to pull the "old guy" or say that because I'm decrepit, it's the right thing, but it really, really works for me to have small modular pieces. I use sed to repackage stuff - I cat a one-line substitution into a file and run it on *.java and it's done. From my command-line window, everything I need to do is more or less one easy line, and if it isn't an easy line, I write an ant target or a shell script and then it's an easy line.

all of which adds up to

e. I prefer to write my own tools than to figure out how someone else thinks I should interact with their tools.


None of this is an argument for anyone else choosing to use my particular technology stack, and I don't shun VS or Eclipse when they're appropriate. I'm working on some C# for work, and I use VS for that. It's not what I prefer, but it's okay. I'm learning my way around Android, and the Eclipse-based SDK is actually pretty well integrated with the platform. Now that I've turned off everything that tries to help me code, it's actually not very painful.

If I keep this up - if Google doesn't manage to crash the platform in the next two years, and if they don't get crushed in a patent war - I'll probably have figured out all of the things I need to do to bring the code into my pretty ASCII windows, and write my own layout generators, but for now, I can use the Eclipse setup, and it's okay.



The only time I argue that someone should stay away from the IDE is at the start of the game. I feel strongly that programming knowledge is cumulative and it builds on your knowledge of the fundamentals. I think everyone should learn the basics of C as early as possible, and they should know their way around the UNIX-type platform (it really is better suited to a programmer... having worked on the Windows platform lately, it's not made for programming). From there, you can branch out to anything, but C is so close to the machine that if you learn it well, you'll be able to follow any imperative/procedural type of language right down into the machine, and you can learn your way around ASM because C is basically a flashy front-end on ASM. (yes, Raynes, I also think that they should learn a Lisp shortly after they finish writing, say a heap sort and like that in C - so they can learn to make their code fly)
That being my position, and a pretty unshakeable one, I think that if you're going to write Java or any other reasonable language*, you should be able to do it with tools that don't hide the machine from you. An IDE is essentially an interface for the language, a tool for manipulating the language, and trying to learn to program in an IDE is like trying to learn to play the piano with a digital scoring program. You might decide that the scoring program or the IDE is a good tool, later on, but while you're learning the basics you should use the most basic tools.

[totgeburt]

Visual C# 2010 Express is the only one i've ever used to i guess i go with that

[Raynes]

Sergio Tapia, on 17 August 2011 - 11:35 PM, said:

Quote

I don't think I ever accused or assumed it was bloated or overcomplicated.

Quote

I'm just not a fan of complexity

Curtis Rutland, on 17 August 2011 - 10:53 PM, said:

In all seriousness, I disagree. I'm describing a flexible and complex framework that you're assuming is bloated and overcomplicated, having never seen or used it before.

I was replying to his post, wherein *he* said it was complex, not me.

Curtis Rutland, on 17 August 2011 - 11:25 PM, said:

Quote

But yes, this *is* my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, movie quote.

But I inferred what you were talking about from your previous post, where you said "Sounds like the primary problem is boilerplate and repetition which are obviously bad things." That seemed to me the same thing as "bloated" or "overcomplicated", so I ran with it. If I misinterpreted you, sorry. I get defensive about my chosen frameworks/IDEs just like you do. Just as long as you know that I didn't downvote you.

Of course! If you didn't defend it, I'd be worried. We're all passionate about our stuff. And I know you didn't downvote me. No issues there. That's what those buttons are for. If you look at the votes, some people voted me up as well. Some people agreed, some people didn't. D'oh well.

[Lemur]

jon.kiparsky, on 17 August 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

I use vi...

I've used the UNIX platform for longer, most likely, than many of the people in this discussion have been alive. (started in 1985)....

I feel strongly that programming knowledge is cumulative and it builds on your knowledge of the fundamentals. I think everyone should learn the basics of C as early as possible, and they should know their way around the UNIX-type platform (it really is better suited to a programmer... having worked on the Windows platform lately, it's not made for programming). From there, you can branch out to anything, but C is so close to the machine that if you learn it well, you'll be able to follow any imperative/procedural type of language right down into the machine, and you can learn your way around ASM because C is basically a flashy front-end on ASM.

I've been hitting Unix hard all summer for personal reasons and I'm starting to love vi/m. Problem is slapping myself on the hand in OpenBSD when I try and install a GUI. Bad habit I need to work around. Learning C this semester for class as well as some more serious Unix topics so should be interesting.

Any personal favorites for learning? I always like to keep a few spare resources.

[Nykc]

I still catch myself typing :wq when trying to save a file I quickly edited in Aptana or notepad++

[jon.kiparsky]

Nykc, on 18 August 2011 - 06:43 AM, said:

I still catch myself typing :wq when trying to save a file I quickly edited in Aptana or notepad++

Too true. I do that in every editor. Then I find myself trying to get rid of it with ESC dw and I wind up with a mess on the screen.

[lordofduct]

to tell you the truth I don't have a 'favourite IDE'... I don't have favourites for most everything. I have ones I don't like, and ones I like, but to single one out... or even a handful... favourite TV show, band, video-game, etc... I couldn't really do it.



Oh and if vim/emacs aren't IDEs, then why is anyone saying it's their favourite in a 'what's your favourite IDE and why' thread? (I'm not contesting if it is or isn't an IDE...)

It's just that'd be like someone saying, "what's your favourite TV show" and I respond, "I don't watch TV, but my favourite book is 'The Great Gatsby'".

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 18 August 2011 - 08:15 AM

[jon.kiparsky]

Lemur, on 18 August 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

I've been hitting Unix hard all summer for personal reasons and I'm starting to love vi/m. Problem is slapping myself on the hand in OpenBSD when I try and install a GUI. Bad habit I need to work around. Learning C this semester for class as well as some more serious Unix topics so should be interesting.

Any personal favorites for learning? I always like to keep a few spare resources.

Resources for learning vi? Or unix?

There are a lot of vi tutorials and quickstarts out there, I've even got one I'm working up (as always, it's a bit weird: it's a file that looks like gibberish, but you follow the instructions and you end up using the vi editor to turn it into a vi quick reference - so you learn the commands and make a cheat sheet at the same time...)
I don't know which of the existing ones suit you, but if you remind me I can send you a list of links that I keep around.

For learning unix, really you need to learn the tools, as you've figured out. Everyone puts together a toolbox. The first thing to do, I think, is to get comfortable with sh scripting, for portability and simplicity, then learn the details of bash or whichever shell you live in. Start making your favorite aliases and defining your environment. Look for tasks that you can automate - at first, you'll have to look for them, but after a little while you'll just start seeing them.

Perl is crucial to me, I use it for anything where even a moderate degree of complexity seems to arise. That's probably because the higher-level constructs - loops and conditionals and the like - seem more reasonable to me than the ones available in shell scripts, even though I know that there's plenty of power available in scripting.
O'Reilly has a few good volumes on perl, they sort of define good language manuals in my eyes. Learning Perl is a fairly high-level intro book, and Programming perl is a pretty accessible advanced book. Both are good, if you're going to get one I'd pick the latter.

Sed is out of fashion these days, but I don't know of a better tool for scripted editing. The stream approach is weird at first, but if you just think of it as an implicit loop over each file, it makes sense and simplifies things. I still don't grok awk, but that's one I'd like to get a handle on.
But you know what they say: when all is sed and awk, there's a lot more sed than awk.
Both languages are well covered in a single volume from O'Reilly, but there's some simple stuff that's probably well covered on the web. Again, I might have some links on my home machine if you're interested.