[Sayid Ahmed]

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So what if it flops? ANY project you partake in has a potential to flop... there is never a guarantee of any return of any sort.

Not much, but it would be sensible to ask around for opinions before partaking in it.

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finding the right one for your game that doesn't deter your client base is another question completely and requires a SKILLED investigation by whoever does your marketing. Don't expect a forum to give you this information, or at least give you information you can actually bank on. There are highly skilled people out their whose sole job is to do market analysis of this kind of crap because it isn't something you can really do from a damn couch cushion!

True, but I only asked for people's opinions so I could stimulate some discussion and thought.

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It's not really a full fledged game, but it was a fun learning experience. We didn't do it to make money, or get fame, or any crap like that. We did it for fun, and we didn't NOT do it just because it had a potential to fail.

That sounds good, mate, I hope I have a similar experience.

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I meant for your game... to get people to play your game, and thus feed your need for notoriety, you need to create a demand for your game... then that allows your to "steal bored users". I am guessing you are talking about the browser based games as a whole.. as if you were going to shoulder the responsibility and burden of driving the massses back to the BBGs. That would just be silly.

For the third/fourth time, I was asking about the browser game industry in general. If the general opinion on browser game is they're a pile of dog crap, then I'll have to think outside the box and make mine a bit differently.

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If you are going to be a negative nancy and not see how hobbies, personal projects, and so forth provide fun then I will have to say "No do not gamble away time, experience, and better shot at notoriety than the status quo to build this game.".

You asked me what the downsides were, so I gave you one. I never said it was a massive deal - that's different. What's wrong with doing a bit of preparation and making sure it doesn't flop as much as possible?

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Some of the traffic stats estimate they are at a quarter of a million hits a month (now)... and if this is after their peak why the hell couldn't they have had a million hits a month?

What?

This post has been edited by Sayid Ahmed: 14 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

[e_i_pi]

I'm creating a browser based game. Well, I've created one, but the first version was really a proof of concept and a test to see whether I could handle programming a full-blown application. The first version is a mess to maintain, but it's a stable application that works as a browser based game. Not well, but it works. The greatest benefit of doing this has not been the money (I'd gone roughly $3000 in the red), but the experience. In developing basic programming skills, I've picked up two jobs in programming, and am now earning 50% more than I was a year ago in my old dead-end job.

On working on the second version, I've learnt about a swathe of concepts I either didn't have a good grasp of before, or I was still developing - PDOs, 3-tier application, encryption, data transfer methods, front controllers, OOP, 3NF. It's taking a long time to code up the second version, and even when I think I've got the foundation down pat, I still go back and augment or rewrite sections, to squeeze that extra bit of efficiency or speed out of them. The second version has made me think more about my approach. In the first version, I just wanted to get it up and running - in the second version, I want it to run well and maintain extensibility. Working on the second version has allowed me to extend my skill base and hone my existing skills.

At this stage I am about $5000 in the red, and plan on sinking another $5000 into it in the next 4-6 months, at which stage it will be in production and ready to take cash payments for premium accounts. About 3 years ago I modelled the market, and found that if the site is moderately successful, it should make $30k-50k per year, and if it is very successful, it could make upwards of $200k per year. I don't make assumptions that my site will be very successful, but I aim for a minimum of moderately successful. That might sound like I'm aiming low, but I'm aiming for something I can hit, I'm not fooling myself into believing that my site will be the next Facebook or Google.

I cannot live off $30-50k a year. I'm not writing the application so that I can earn a meagre wage. I'm doing it for coding experience, and to have a nice big pile of ticks on my resume. In developing and managing a wesbite, you pick up a heap of skills. I've picked up programming skills in 8 languages (HTML, CSS, PHP, XML, MySQL, SQL, Javascript, jQuery), developed my liaising and negotiation skills, my time management skills, my money management skills, my market research skills, and my business intelligence skills. I believe the 3 years experience I've given myself in this is worth at least what a CompSci/IT degree is worth in this country. That means it's virtually saved me the $25-35k I would spend on tertiary education.

This post has been edited by e_i_pi: 14 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

[Sayid Ahmed]

Ah e_i_pi, I briefly spoke to you before about Art of War. That sounds awesome if you could get that much skill and recognition out of it. I'm not in the programming/computing/IT trade, so what's essential to you and others is going to be negligible for my career development (unless I go into simulation I guess).


Though I'm curious as to how you estimate the money from the site, is this from selling micropayments and/or game currency to your players? How to monetise an online game has always been a tough topic for me to decide on.

[e_i_pi]

In my case, I offer free-to-play, but you can only have 5 games going at any one time. I'll later enforce more strictures, such as only being able to play certain settings, certain maps, etc. Premium accounts will be available, and they lift all of these strictures.

That's the basics of it. As for how I estimated the market, I looked at 10 of my competitors that have similar monetised setups, and found that they ranged from having about 500 paying customers per year up to around 8000 paying customers per year. The ordinary charge is around $20-30 per account, which parks the market between $10000 and $240000. After collecintg stats, I found the median, which was around $30-50k. I think there may have been 3 out of the 10 sites that were above this median value, can't recall off hand (I'm at work and don't have my market research docs in front of me).

[Sayid Ahmed]

e_i_pi, on 14 February 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

The ordinary charge is around $20-30 per account, which parks the market between $10000 and $240000. After collecintg stats, I found the median, which was around $30-50k. I think there may have been 3 out of the 10 sites that were above this median value, can't recall off hand (I'm at work and don't have my market research docs in front of me).

That's alright, I was just curious about your thought process. Yeah that model sounds a lot like Supremacy 1914's, which I really like. eRepublik looks like it just extorts players for in game currency, which I don't agree with. Flat rate subscription makes the game fair, but it seems to put people off for some reason (maybe psychological), though I assume it suits 3D MMOs like WoW and EVE Online more than a simple browser game.

I've noticed that NationStates gets several hundred thousands unique viewers per month, and it has Google ad banners, but I don't know if they're pay per impression, or per unique view. That can make the difference between a few hundred dollars and a few thousand.

[e_i_pi]

That's providing you want advertising on your site, which can equally drive people away.

[Sayid Ahmed]

e_i_pi, on 14 February 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

That's providing you want advertising on your site, which can equally drive people away.

Of course, but nationstates's ownsers has decided to put ads up and I just wonder how much they profit from it. It has a lot members anyway and it's been online for years so it must be working somehow.

[LivingDeadGirlUK]

My friend met his wife through a browser based game he wrote, so you can add 'finding love' to the list of pro's

[Sayid Ahmed]

LivingDeadGirlUK, on 19 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

My friend met his wife through a browser based game he wrote, so you can add 'finding love' to the list of pro's

LOL.

I guess you could use it as a social network with all the roleplay and lack of awkwardness you could want.

[wordswords]

LDG's friend grew his browser-based game through his skills in community building and marketing. So that is an important consideration. He has good technical skills, but I would say community building is the most important skill when developing a browser-based game. You may also want to team up with a decent graphic designer, so you have good-looking graphics for your web game.

[Sayid Ahmed]

wordswords, on 19 February 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

LDG's friend grew his browser-based game through his skills in community building and marketing. So that is an important consideration. He has good technical skills, but I would say community building is the most important skill when developing a browser-based game. You may also want to team up with a decent graphic designer, so you have good-looking graphics for your web game.

Yes I agree. After being inspired by several online games, I'm going for a game that has incentives for cooperation and competition, so there has to be a community, otherwise no point in the game. My biggest problem with MMOs (from browser to 3D game) is that they end up being 'single player online' - lots of NPCs, static value of goods, trivial mechanics - and only fun if your mates are playing with you.

I could be teaming up with my friend who's great with graphics and can do client side scripting, whilst I can do server side, all the mechanics and all the bulky HTML content crap.

Btw, what game are we talking about here?

This post has been edited by Sayid Ahmed: 19 February 2012 - 03:41 PM

[LivingDeadGirlUK]

Sayid Ahmed, on 19 February 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Btw, what game are we talking about here?

Mech Crusaders http://www.mech.vg/

It's a simple game idea but it is addictive and he has built a nice little community out of it.

[Walter Warner]

Whoa, you can't live off of $30 to $50 a year? I am curious where you live. I would love to make that kind of dough.

[gabehabe]

http://doitmotherfucker.com

/thread

[Sayid Ahmed]

gabehabe, on 22 February 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

http://doitmotherfucker.com

/thread

Nein, das ist verboten.