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#1 mccabec123   User is offline

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JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:16 AM

Hi there everyone, I'm just here to start a discussion on Javascript and JQuery, I myself have never used JQuery before, as I tend to be a bit of a purist when it comes to programming, and try to stick to the root form of languages, due to performance reasons.

I recently worked with a company who employed a static web page developer to create a splash page for them, the guy is fairly reputable and his work seems to be fairly web friendly. But and there's always a but :P there seems to be performance issues on machines with slightly less resources to facilitate it, now the project is a server rack with flashing lights etc. the lights flash using JQuery, I suspect some use of the '.animate()' function, as I've seen this used before.

From my understanding, JQuery is a library of simplified pre-written Javascript functions, now I was wondering about how large the difference in performance would be if the project was re-written in pure Javascript with a no BS approach (pardon my french).

Please feel free to discuss and divulge in any manner or form, whether you're a Javascript purist like myself or a JQuery nut, I'd like to know everyone's opinions.

Thanks guys.

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#2 Dormilich   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:17 PM

what’s a BS approach?

anyways, rewriting jQuery in "pure" Javascript would be just another version of a framework, so you wouldn’t really see a difference (not taking into account poorly written jQuery extensions).
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#3 fromTheSprawl   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

He means :moo: + s + a greeting in two letters + t
which means something that a person who's referring to a BS something means it seems like a waste of effort/time.

By the way, I see your point, but wouldn't learning jQuery take some time if you could do it yourself in Javascript? I'm interested in this topic, as I'm a Javascript purist myself, and have never touched jQuery before. Would it really make a world of difference if we learn it?

I see this as it's pros:
- code written for you, so less time coding
- documentation is out there

I don't know how steep the learning curve is for jQuery though.
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#4 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:47 PM

I've played with both. jquery seems to me a good library, and quite thorough: you can use it effectively knowing almost no javascript. This is a good thing if you just need to get some stuff done, and a bad thing if it prevents you from learning javascript.

When I had to get some documentation up and rolling, I was very glad that I was able to reach for jquery. I've since learned more about javascript, and that's a good thing too.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 17 May 2012 - 10:50 PM

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#5 Dormilich   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 17 May 2012 - 11:44 PM

the main problem for answering this question is: how much do you care about IE? one of the main purposes of jQuery is having a common API that works across all browsers (I would mention the different handling of events as prime example)
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#6 mccabec123   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

View PostDormilich, on 17 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

the main problem for answering this question is: how much do you care about IE? one of the main purposes of jQuery is having a common API that works across all browsers (I would mention the different handling of events as prime example)


This is an incredibly valid point, I've run into a fair amount of problems related to IE. But if you design your Javascript code thoroughly you should have tested your site on all browser including IE, this is a golden rule for web developer. Another golden rule is making sure your site runs well older systems. So these rules can conflict, and to be honest I see jQuery as cutting corners rather than a good idea. Although it has it's uses, I generally see that people who use JQuery tend not to understand the language beneath it, which worries me; I mean are we teaching newcomers bad habits by creating simpler languages based on simplifications of languages; as Javascript itself is a simplification of the Java language. I mean, everytime we load a JQuery language, we're initializing every pre-written function within that library which is a fair amount, now when you add that to an already very complex system, things seem to start to get fairly hairy when I think about it. Please feel free to slate, destroy or insult anything I've written here, I'm merely stating things from my point of view.

Dormilich don't mistake this for a problem or question per say, I was just using the above situation as a reason or instance where the idea of this problem comes into play, in order for people to discuss and relate the benefits of JQuery and Javascript. This isn't intended to call you out, just saying :) I want this to be a full on discussion as it seems to be something that not many people think about, or from what I've seen.

Thanks for your input though guys :)
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#7 Dormilich   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 19 May 2012 - 03:12 AM

View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I generally see that people who use JQuery tend not to understand the language beneath it

yepp, too many people proclaim that jQuery is better than Javascript (that statement alone shows their not-understanding of JS) and also spread that among newbies.


View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

as Javascript itself is a simplification of the Java language.

now you’re the one not understanding Javascript. though JS has been influenced by Java, it is in no way a simplification thereof. there are many influences from Functional Programming, let alone the object handling and inheritance (IIRC, Java inherits using Classes, but JS inherits using Prototypes) not to mention its flexibility (you can chang almost everything on runtime)


View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I mean, everytime we load a JQuery language, we're initializing every pre-written function within that library which is a fair amount,

and when you load your own cross-browser work-arounds, you’re not doing the same?
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#8 mccabec123   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

View PostDormilich, on 19 May 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I generally see that people who use JQuery tend not to understand the language beneath it

yepp, too many people proclaim that jQuery is better than Javascript (that statement alone shows their not-understanding of JS) and also spread that among newbies.


View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

as Javascript itself is a simplification of the Java language.

now you’re the one not understanding Javascript. though JS has been influenced by Java, it is in no way a simplification thereof. there are many influences from Functional Programming, let alone the object handling and inheritance (IIRC, Java inherits using Classes, but JS inherits using Prototypes) not to mention its flexibility (you can chang almost everything on runtime)


View Postmccabec123, on 18 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I mean, everytime we load a JQuery language, we're initializing every pre-written function within that library which is a fair amount,

and when you load your own cross-browser work-arounds, you’re not doing the same?


The workarounds fair enough, but we're loading every function that we do not need also.

As for the simplification, I read it in some document a while back. And I just looked over a few things and you are in fact correct, it's written solely in C, I had no idea, apparently it just shares the same function names as the Java programming language.

And the not understanding, why do you think I started this discussion? To learn :P
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#9 Dormilich   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 20 May 2012 - 02:18 AM

View Postmccabec123, on 19 May 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

apparently it just shares the same function names as the Java programming language.

originally, JS was named LiveScript but later renamed to Javascript (more)
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#10 mccabec123   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

I didn't know that actually, what made them change it?
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#11 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

View Postmccabec123, on 20 May 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

I didn't know that actually, what made them change it?


Marketing. Java was hot, there was a bandwagon.
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#12 mccabec123   User is offline

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Re: JQuery VS Javascript

Posted 20 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

Ah okay, livescript sounds terrible anyway :P Sounds like something Microsoft would develop :P haha!

This post has been edited by mccabec123: 20 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

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