Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

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41 Replies - 14180 Views - Last Post: 17 September 2012 - 07:02 PM Rate Topic: -----

#16 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

What? Are you suggesting this challenge is copied from somewhere else? Although there's no harm in doing that.

Firstly, I thought of this challenge myself, I've never seen or heard of one like it, although I suppose it's possible.

Secondly, your links don't seem to support the fact that this challenge is somehow copied. The first one you gave to a question how to sort an Excel column? And the second on a link straight back to here??

What is really going on(?)

This post has been edited by Simown: 14 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

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#17 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

I smell a rat, simown. You might have had a thought similar to one someone else had two years ago, but how likely is that? Come on, spill it, what's your game?

:)

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 14 September 2012 - 08:00 PM

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#18 charles314   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:03 PM

I am not suggesting anything. It just seemed rather close. Yes, I agree, anything -as far as I know-, is possible. On the links, I simply ran search terms related to this post, and saw wording the similar to what was posted at the top. You will excuse my use of the interface, as I am new an learning. No need to get angry. You said you didn't, so, no harm no foul.

Here, try for yourself Google> Enter these words > python sorting method "without indices"

The wording was similar wording on this site: www.eeyogo.com/

But, like I said. If you didn't do it, you didn't do it. I just noticed the similarities, that's all.
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#19 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

You got me! Take away the shopping cart and the Javascript and it's somehow exactly the same :o I can't work out who won that time though, strange.

Are you telling me that two people on different forums are not allowed to post vaguely similar ideas years apart? I can see how it could confuse some people.

@charles314: I don't notice any similarities! Searching for words will bring up the words that are the same.. that's how it works!

I'm not angry in the slightest, I just don't comprehend why you think it seems similar, the site you suggested doesn't seem to bring up anything remotely the same.

This post has been edited by Simown: 14 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

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#20 charles314   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:28 PM

Well, the similarity is that if you plug the operators in -as in looking at detail- you would have seen, in the link, that some of the the link, links back here. I am glad you are not angry.

The one link just takes feeds in. If you noticed, your feed -this feed- was among them. So, I have no code for this challenge. But, still this has been interesting indeed.

Is it really without indices? Almost like Zen.

It's ok, sometimes blind men doing things that those with sight can not see.

Sometimes, when programming -albeit I am not very good- exploring the logic of what is really going on is interesting.

Thank you for the challenge.

Peace.
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#21 baavgai   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:52 AM

View Postcharles314, on 14 September 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Here, try for yourself Google> Enter these words > python sorting method "without indices"


Tried it. Strangely, I saw nothing related to programming challenges. I'm afraid I don't see the point.

Any decent Python programmer uses brace syntax as a matter of course. It is the most precise way to manipulate lists in the language. Removing it from play provides a "challenge."

Avoiding the syntax is either the act of a beginner, or perhaps the use of an abstraction that relies on method calls. These are the questions asked of the internet that I can see.

In any case, it's a rather classic kind of challenge. You see how far you can get when given a peculiar constraint. Removing a key language element is a common constraint. If someone else had thought of this challenge independently, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

However, as far as I can tell, this challenge is the first. Thanks Simown!
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#22 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:33 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 15 September 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

However, as far as I can tell, this challenge is the first. Thanks Simown!


Yup. This is just a weird non-issue sidebar to a pretty nice brain-stretcher. Good work, simown - keep 'em coming!
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#23 charles314   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:52 AM

Hey, sorry guys(gals). Been staying up super-late. Too much caff + no sleep + staring at a screen too long isn't good. The link was a feed that iterated through some other urls. Think what I was trying to say -although it came out rather cryptic- was that I saw this link go through a feed. Instead of saying it like their was a conspiracy. Lack of sleep led to poor judgement and choice of words.

When I wrote 'What is really going on', I should have asked -always thinking internally I forget people can not read my mind - 'What would happen with the could in order to make this happen'. (Of course without giving over an answer to compromise the challenge.

If you didn't see it, is because obviously, it's a feed (like RSS). I'm really sorry about the confusion, like I said no sleep, staring at a screen, and too much caff really can, well, it's just not good. Just wasn't thinking clearly.

Gosh, I feel silly now. Once again, apologies.

Good luck with the challenge.
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#24 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

It's okay. It's the internet - mankind's greatest tool for miscommunication.
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#25 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:56 AM

*bows*

The problem I can foresee with this type of problem is that it's "sorting methods" - based on techniques people may not even know (albeit pretty simple stuff), maybe it's too much of a challenge for people who would be interested in a Python challenge, given the number of entries, although in a programming forum you'd hope not!

Maybe I have to judge it a bit better in future. I know.. we can have a vote for the next challenge after this one is up.

It's great to read through the solutions so far, it's always amazing to say "I never thought of that!"

@charles314 No problem, I don't think anyone was actually offended by it, just perhaps a little confused. If not this challenge, I expect you to give the next one a shot ;)

This post has been edited by Simown: 15 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

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#26 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:47 AM

I think that if you want beginners to enter, you should try to avoid having excellent solutions posted straight off. Perhaps solutions should not be publicly visible until the challenge has expired, and then we can all see them at once.

Also, you might think about scaling the raw "scores" (time, or whatever you use) by the submitter's reputation score, or else offer recognition for the best submissions from various bands of rep rank. I'd love to see beginners enter submissions and get recognition for coming up with something good. The only trouble with that plan is that rep isn't really a great proxy for experience in the world. Perhaps there's a better way to get at the same idea.
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#27 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

I think maybe a beginners and expert category would be a good shout. Two challenges at once could even be put forward for "casual" and "hardcore" programmers, I think I'd be able to tell who was an "expert" by their code usage. I'd like to see a lot more challenges in this forum.

I don't know how to mask solutions automatically unless we set up a system where I could be PM'd the answer, but that seems a bit strange to me. It's possible to hide posts but only if I am online to do so, and that's not always!
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#28 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:34 AM

Last day to get your entries in! If you are planning to submit an entry, it's probably best to do it today.

Submit any time in the next 24 hours or so, and it will be accepted. I'll judge them next week sometime.
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#29 charles314   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:55 AM

Thanks Simown. I might try the next challenge 'if' I have learned enough Python by them. With this one, I can't really. Why? Well an indice is an index. Python, all of it's information, is an indice/index -so to speak-, so, no matter what code you write, an index will be used. So, this is why I can not enter the challenge. Variables require an index not unlike binary. But, I do look forward to see whatever you next challenge is. So, I guess based on the semantics and wording of the challenge, I must digress. If I am 'wrong' I challenge you to use 'Logic' -something programmers should be good at- to prove me wrong. Fairs, fair.

Another thing, how in this world of editors do you edit these posts?
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#30 Simown   User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:24 AM

Are you referring to memory storage in some roundabout way? I fortunately make the rules in this challenge, and you can use as much variable storage as you want. Sorry if that was unclear, but I didn't feel it was necessary. You certainly can enter, I'll bend the rules just for you and allow it.

I think it was pretty clear from the off what the rules of this challenge were, I gave a problem statement and then followed it up with examples of what you could not do. Simply, if you can sort a sequence of numbers without using square brackets, it's a candidate for entry. The other examples posted should have given you a clue what was needed for an entry. You could have even asked me, which is what other members did!

You couldn't work that out? Or you just decided to try and be clever and void my challenge?
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