[supersloth]

the point of the link isn't to say that the united states should adopt laws equal to japan's, the point was that it was evidence that more restrictive firearms laws equals less firearm deaths, both homicides and accidental shootings. it was a counter argument to those stating that gun control does not work. it's been proven to work.

we don't have to go as far as them, we should just sensible people and ban assault rifles, close gunshow loopholes, etc etc. start somewhere over the absolutely nothing we are doing now. we can very easily come up with strong laws that work for us.

This post has been edited by supersloth: 14 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

[DarenR]

here try this site

looks like the reason Japan's numbers are so low is because the UN doesn't have much actual information on the rate, so the rate for Japan may be skued.

[supersloth]

where does it say that in reference to japan? i don't see it

[BenignDesign]

skewed.*

[AthenaDX]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/1440764.stm
http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

In short, the UK created stronger gun control which strangely did the opposite of what it was intended to do. Crime went up. It has a much higher crime rate than the USA with much stronger gun control.

The laws were enacted after a school shooting. Wonder how many people will look at this and say, oh gee, maybe we shouldn't do this? Or just blindly follow emotions.

I am deeply saddened by the event but stronger gun control will likely make it worse in my opinion. We could use some changes, I'll admit, but not to a severe intent that many people are wanting.

[DarenR]

supersloth, on 14 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

where does it say that in reference to japan? i don't see it

in the pdf every country has numbers listed after guns except for JAPAN--- that tells me there is either no info available or they are withholding the info.

[DarenR]

BenignDesign, on 14 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

skewed.*

damn it, I need you in my pocket to be my spell checker.....lol

[supersloth]

i don't see anything like what you are describing. i do however see a spreadsheet that has japan listed and in that it doesn't have numbers for all years, but it does have them for 2008 and they are exactly what is described in the atlantic article i linked to. so now we have two sources pointing to them having incredibly low firearm homicides.

[jon.kiparsky]

I agree that it's idiotic to make systematic changes based on knee-jerk reactions to recent events, but even if that motivation would be wrong, it still seems like we might want to think about doing something more sensible than the current lack of policy.

AthenaDX, on 14 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I am deeply saddened by the event but stronger gun control will likely make it worse in my opinion.

How so? More school shootings? More domestic murders? More women staying in abusive situations because they know their abuser is armed and are more afraid of being killed than of being beaten up again? More accidental deaths from poorly-stored and poorly-handled weapons?
What gets worse if you register weapons and require reasonable licensing?

[DarenR]

Quote

What gets worse if you register weapons and require reasonable licensing?

mine are all registered but does that mean someone cant steal them? no

[AthenaDX]

Did you read any of the information I had posted or just had a knee-jerk reaction to that sentence I posted? I'm not doing it off my own head but the facts of the same thing people are posting about doing in the USA, did /not/ work in the UK. The UK, which we have a much closer culture to than that of Japan which is also being posted about.

More women are kept in situations of that sort from physical abuse (aka fists) and mental abuse, years of this and they're stuck. Domestic murders are just as easy with any other sort of murder option, I seriously doubt that would lower very much. Only thing I could see lowering is school shootings, however, many other crimes would spring up.

I'm not against gun control, I'm against far stronger gun control than that we have. The gun control people are yelling about us having is what the UK has.

[Curtis Rutland]

Quote

What gets worse if you register weapons and require reasonable licensing?

I didn't really want to get into this gun control discussion, but I do want to address this. I don't think anything gets worse, but I don't think it gets better either.

Most of the guns that are in the hands of criminals are already there illegally. Guns aren't like cars, so the comparison that I've already seen in this thread doesn't really work. There's an immediately observable difference between a driver and a pedestrian, which makes it far easier (still hard) to catch unlicensed drivers, or ones driving stolen cars. It's a lot harder to determine who's carrying a gun, which makes it even harder to catch unlicensed carriers or thieves.

I'm not suggesting our laws are perfect or that there's no solution, but I doubt registration is going to make it easier to do anything than track down who originally owned the stolen gun used in a crime.

I do believe that people should have to have mandatory safety training and pass a proficiency test before getting their first firearm (of each type, you should have to have a different test for shotgun/rifle/handgun). But I don't know how you're going to weed out crazies if they haven't already done something crazy.

[vividexstance]

Apparently the Principal who was killed had setup a new security policy that you had to ring a bell and someone would then let you in. Now the suspect's mother was a teacher there and more than likely the main target, so someone may have recognized him and let him in. Also, I saw the news saying how the suspect's brother was found dead in a residence.

[Marbelous]

jon.kiparsky, on 14 December 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

What gets worse if you register weapons and require reasonable licensing?

Our Freedom, obviously. The question is whether the loss of that freedom is worth the potential gain in security.

[jon.kiparsky]

AthenaDX, on 14 December 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Did you read any of the information I had posted or just had a knee-jerk reaction to that sentence I posted? I'm not doing it off my own head but the facts of the same thing people are posting about doing in the USA, did /not/ work in the UK. The UK, which we have a much closer culture to than that of Japan which is also being posted about.

I did read your post. I'm curious about what, specifically, you think would be worse in the US if a sensible gun control policy were enacted: basically, I'm talking about registration of weapons in such as way as to make them traceable to their last legal owner and to know as well as possible whether a given bullet was fired from a given gun, and reasonable licensing requirements.
I would like to know how that makes things worse.