[Konnigun]

Hey everyone!
I am a junior developer. I have a basic programming knowledge (Java, C#, PHP, RoR, HTML,CSS,JS,Jquery, AJAX).
So I am looking for my first job now, but there are so many possibilities! Enterprise, mobile, web-development, standalone software, games...

Can you please explain me what are possible career paths for me to take as software developer? Would be awesome if you can write somewhat a list of them explaining what exactly will I work on, will I work in big companys or startups, what kind of projects, how many people working on each, is average job-market salary bigger/less compared to other paths and so on. Like brief review of each software development direction explaining what will my job look like and what are salarys in this direction compared to others.
Thanks alot!

[modi123_1]

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Can you please explain me what are possible career paths for me to take as software developer?

Didn't you just list a lot of them?

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Would be awesome if you can write somewhat a list of them explaining what exactly will I work on,

That depends on the company and department.

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will I work in big companys or startups,

That depends on the company you apply to.

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what kind of projects,

That depends on the company and department.

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how many people working on each,

That depends on the company and department.

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is average job-market salary bigger/less compared to other paths and so on.

check your local job boards or salary.com

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Like brief review of each software development direction explaining what will my job look like and what are salarys in this direction compared to others.

You must be kidding, right? Is this for a homework write up?

[Konnigun]

Yeah sure I listed them all, but I wanted a deeper explanation, cause it seems like if I choose Java - it's mostly enterprise development: big projects, big complex systems, bigger salarys in general, and if I go for something like PHP or Ruby I would mostly work for startups or little/middle sized projects. But I am not totally sure if I did right conclusions, so that's why I posted here.

P.S.: Btw, how do you edit your own posts here? Srsly, I've read everywhere found nothing xD

[modi123_1]

Languages are tools used by the companies.. and rarely dictate what you are doing... and companies are as varied as the grains of sands on a beach.. so again.. trying to determine what a company will be like based on language is.. backwards. The best bet is to check your local job boards.. see what people are doing.. then check those company sites out and see what they are telling people they are doing. Typically a good connection of information.

I've seen java guys work in big projects and some that work in nothing but one-offs.. and I've seen php and ruby be stretched into giant corporate mission critical apps. Don't get locked into some thought process that says language dictates company-anything. If someone up the corporate ladder thinks using php to do desktop word processing is a good idea then by golly that's what will be done.

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P.S.: Btw, how do you edit your own posts here? Srsly, I've read everywhere found nothing xD

http://www.dreaminco...-to-edit-times/

[Konnigun]

Well I certainly did check local boards, and while your words look great in theory - in reality most enterprise systems use C# or Java, you would never find them using PHP, for example. On the other side - web-startups mostly use PHP. That's what I've found. Strange that you are an adept of "language is just a tool" thingy. Tell it to employers lolz. In real world job-market doesn't work like that, java gets paid higher than PHP, PHP is not used for enterprise and so on.

[tlhIn`toq]

All of this "How do I become a coder?" and "How do I get a job?" "What is it like in the real world?" stuff is well covered in the Q&A with the Experts thread.

Sorry if this hurts your feelings - but your question sounds like a 12 year old that's never held a job before, and possible haven't ventured beyond your home or school walls before. Do you really not know that no two companies are alike, regardless of profession? No two grocery chains have the same number of departments, nor the same number of people in matching departments. Do you think that Home Depot and Lowes Hardware are exactly the same internally except for the branding and signage? What about Sears and WalMart? Do you think there is some unknown set of standards that ALL companies secretly follow: Must have 12 people in HR, Must have 4 people in development, everyone in Web Design earn $48,500/year... Or that all software companies follow the exact same structure and product life cycle?

Every company works differently but might have some similarities. That's just the world, not programming. Some will stress fast product release with frequent updates/patches, while others release one version a year but it is more stringently tested. One boss is nice and one is an ass.

Get out of the basement and get a job... ANY job... Learn about the work world... Interact with living people. Make some friends and talk to them about their jobs and employers.

[tlhIn`toq]

Konnigun, on 29 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

... your words look great in theory - in reality most enterprise systems use C# or Java, you would never find them using PHP, for example. On the other side - web-startups mostly use PHP. That's what I've found. Strange that you are an adept of "language is just a tool" thingy. Tell it to employers lolz. In real world job-market doesn't work like that, java gets paid higher than PHP, PHP is not used for enterprise and so on.

If you have it all figured out well enough to tell the 10+ year senior coder he's wrong - Then what more can we tell you? I mean you have all the answers already, why would you need us to tell you what projects you will be working on?

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list of them explaining what exactly will I work on,

Let me tell you what you will be work on:
The crappy rookie grunt work that the senior programmers don't want to do, and don't have to do because they have 10 years of seniority over you.

[modi123_1]

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Well I certainly did check local boards, and while your words look great in theory - in reality most enterprise systems use C# or Java, you would never find them using PHP, for example. On the other side - web-startups mostly use PHP. That's what I've found.

You've must have taken a spin or two around the block then, eh? I'll tell you that the last few major companies I have worked with (and a few I have consulted with) do use php. While I do love me some C# I do recognize it is not going to solve all my problems nor am I willing to use a hammer when I really need a screw driver.

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Strange that you are an adept of "language is just a tool" thingy. Tell it to employers lolz. In real world job-market doesn't work like that, java gets paid higher than PHP, PHP is not used for enterprise and so on.

Oddly - I do. Sure there are jobs that are "low level java monkey I" or "php guru leve 12", but my jobs are titles like "senior software dev II" or "web dev III". Indeed there's a skill set of tech they require you to know, but when you are approached to design a system that isn't quite in in that frameset what happens? You don't roll over and throw up your hands, but instead you find a language that works.

"Oh lawdy lawd mister boss-man. That problem isn't solvable in mah job description! Send it back, send it back!" -> "Tell it to employers lolz. "

Naw - what you do is you realize you can be a one trick pony (which I guess there's good money to be made in it) or you adapt, overcome, and achieve.

.. but it sounds like you know all of this, right?

[Konnigun]

Wow, you guys should be a nover writers

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All of this "How do I become a coder?" and "How do I get a job?" "What is it like in the real world?" stuff is well covered in the Q&A with the Experts thread.

Sorry if this hurts your feelings - but your question sounds like a 12 year old that's never held a job before, and possible haven't ventured beyond your home or school walls before. Do you really not know that no two companies are alike, regardless of profession? No two grocery chains have the same number of departments, nor the same number of people in matching departments. Do you think that Home Depot and Lowes Hardware are exactly the same internally except for the branding and signage? What about Sears and WalMart? Do you think there is some unknown set of standards that ALL companies secretly follow: Must have 12 people in HR, Must have 4 people in development, everyone in Web Design earn $48,500/year... Or that all software companies follow the exact same structure and product life cycle?

Every company works differently but might have some similarities. That's just the world, not programming. Some will stress fast product release with frequent updates/patches, while others release one version a year but it is more stringently tested. One boss is nice and one is an ass.

Get out of the basement and get a job... ANY job... Learn about the work world... Interact with living people. Make some friends and talk to them about their jobs and employers.

It's really cool to spend lots of time writing it, I admire your poetry skills, but if you search Ruby on Rails in your local area - you get 20 times less jobs than Java developer, and if you are such a pro 10+ years experienced senior and come to some company who uses C# and tell them "hey look, I am so pro, but I worked with PHP last few years" you think they would care bout your seniorness? They would just take some C# guy instead.

If you are pro guy who used PHP, know Symfony, Zend framework and tons of CMS's, but than you come to J2EE job and they ask you if you know Struts, Spring and Maven, what would you tell them?

For example, I am a Junior PHP developer right now actually. But if I would decide to switch to Java in future - I am sure I would have to start from scratch. Sure I would know common design patterns and some common theories like MVC and OOP but seriously, it would take quite some time to learn all the technologies and frameworks I need for Java development, I am sure it's like that, aint it? And employer won't be actually very happy to take me for job.

I am just thinking that if I choose PHP now it will be harder to switch language/programming direction later, and it makes me think that it's kinda important decision now. So you say language and company and direction do not really matter as long as it's development? And I should just programm and dont mind too much?

[Konnigun]

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Let me tell you what you will be work on:
The crappy rookie grunt work that the senior programmers don't want to do, and don't have to do because they have 10 years of seniority over you.

Oooww aaawww that hurts so badly man! You totally got me here, you are so badass!

[tlhIn`toq]

It doesn't matter what you start learning now - it won't be the skill set you need in a few years anyway.

Kobol and Pascal shifted out of everyday use for C. The C programmers evolved into C++ when that new language came out. Then evolved into C# and Objective-C and Cocoa... Then came the side-shootoff of F# for the finance market. and...and...and.

In the end this all boils down to the same question and answer that every rookie asks, and has asked here in 100 threads:

Q: What should I learn to get a job?
A: What do you want to do for a living? C# if you want to code for Xbox, Objective-C if you want to code for iPad, C if you want to code for embedded systems... Do you want to program undersea sonic sensors? Do you want to make Windows UserControl libraries to sell to other developers? Blah blah blah.

If you're asking what you need to learn, then you are saying you have no idea what line of work you want to be in. We can't help you decided what to be when you grow up. Perhaps a couple years in the military will help you find yourself.

Pick a career path, then learn the tools you need for it. And get rid of this idea that once you learn it you're done. You will be a student the rest of your life, learning the next newest lanugage/API/SDK/Technology. Its a constantly moving target.

[Konnigun]

Once again, military joke was epic hillarious.
Do I understand right: I choose programming direction and not language?

If so - for me it's totally clear, I dont want mobile or videogames development, or standalone PC development, I want web-development. But I don't actually have an idea if enterprise and web-development actually differ. Do they?

What is enterprise development exactly? I understand that it's enterprise systems, but they don't seem to differ much from web-applications, in fact they seem like being web-applications actually if I understand right.
Enlighten me here please

[tlhIn`toq]

Konnigun, on 29 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Once again, military joke was epic hillarious hilarious.

I misunderstand me. It was no joke. I do not consider military service to be a joke. Those that choose to risk their lives to ensure the freedom and liberties of strangers {especially strangers that are free to consider them jokes BECAUSE of their sacrifice} are heroes.





*Unsubscribing from thread

[Lemur]

Enlightenment only comes to those who are ready and welcome its presence. You, however, have chosen quite clearly to embrace your own ill-informed ideas of what life should be like.

Quite honestly you have no experience, no clue, and no hope with that type of attitude. I want you to answer for yourself, because enlightenment comes from the discovery of your own introspection, not our contribution because quite frankly you're not here to learn and it shows.

I have no time to waste with special snowflakes that have an attitude problem. You're on the wrong forums to treat seniors in such a way and expect any form of help.

[macosxnerd101]

I'm closing this thread. Konnigun, your behavior has really been unprofessional. You need to learn some maturity before thinking about a career. Topic closed.