Teaching Class Need Help…

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12 Replies - 1658 Views - Last Post: 19 August 2007 - 10:37 AM

#1 onebigm16   User is offline

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Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 10:39 AM

Hi I am 17 year old high school student I excelled in computer field for my age mainly servers and networking, but not in web design I understand the concepts very well but it is not were my talent is. So you are asking why the title is teaching class needs help if I am only 17. Well here is the short story.

My school doesn’t really have a tech teacher anymore for A+ and networking so last year for the last part of the year I thought the class. Well they asked me to teach again this coming year. So I said ok that’s fine I enjoy it very much. Well the first semester is web design and the second semester is A+/networking. So i am asking you we designers to help me out here. I have one semester to teach them what they need to know about web design. But my problem is I don’t know were exactly were to start I know html. But I want them to be the newest standard there is and everything. I am planning on teaching them css( which I will admit I don’t understand that much) and php ( one language I do understand) and others that will help them make rich web content. SO...

Can the web designer’s community help me out with some kind of curriculum or give me some ideas on what to do?

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#2 Topher84   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 10:59 AM

Since its just highschool and it doesn't matter much i'd go w/ some flash development with small basic loaders/webpages. You can snag all kinds of decent books off amazon.com or even some stuff off here and other online websites devoted solely to flash programming.
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#3 skyhawk133   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:07 AM

Focus on the basics of html. Proper structuring of an html document, standards compliance, nothing complicated.

I might mention flash, php, asp, ruby, coldfusion, so they are aware of what dynamic languages are out there, but wouldn't even show the code.
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#4 onebigm16   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:09 AM

Ok i can teach them some flash in there also, ok thats sounds good to just explain to them the dynamic languages instead of teach it to them, because i don't have a full year. This may be a noob question but hay we are all noobs some time. What are the new standards for HTML and CSS? want to make sure that i teach them new standards not the old. Thank you, anyone else any more suggestions?

This post has been edited by onebigm16: 30 July 2007 - 11:15 AM

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#5 onebigm16   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:43 AM

Have a another question? should i teach them HTML from notepad style or from a ui like Dreamweaver or visual studio web developer
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#6 PsychoCoder   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:53 AM

View Postonebigm16, on 30 Jul, 2007 - 11:43 AM, said:

Have a another question? should i teach them HTML from notepad style or from a ui like Dreamweaver or visual studio web developer


I would make it as easy as possible to begin with. Use something like Visual Web Developer, let them get their feet wet and used to the syntax before letting them try it in a text editor. Also, to reiterate what SkyHawk said, you can "mention" flash, php, asp and other dynamic languages but dont dine into any code, let them know its available and all but dont teach it in a basic web dev class. Focus more on structure, standards, compliance issues, W3C standard issues and such. Make sure they have a firm grasp of how to properly format and structure a HTML document and thing like that.
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#7 onebigm16   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:18 PM

View PostPsychoCoder, on 30 Jul, 2007 - 11:53 AM, said:

View Postonebigm16, on 30 Jul, 2007 - 11:43 AM, said:

Have a another question? should i teach them HTML from notepad style or from a ui like Dreamweaver or visual studio web developer


I would make it as easy as possible to begin with. Use something like Visual Web Developer, let them get their feet wet and used to the syntax before letting them try it in a text editor. Also, to reiterate what SkyHawk said, you can "mention" flash, php, asp and other dynamic languages but dont dine into any code, let them know its available and all but dont teach it in a basic web dev class. Focus more on structure, standards, compliance issues, W3C standard issues and such. Make sure they have a firm grasp of how to properly format and structure a HTML document and thing like that.


Ok thats good to know that its a smart idea to start off with visual web developer. i love that program thats were i do all my programing in makes things so much easier. I know some freshman last year took website class i am not sure if they all did but i know some did. so i was thinking if some of them know the basics go over it again briefly with them and have them start to learn some of the dynamic stuff. i was hopeing by the end of the semester that some would be able to make some rich dynamic driven sites ( for my parents business ). i was thinking for a final project split the class into groups and have them all develop a website for my parents nursery business and then my parents look at them and pick the one they want to use for real. I think that the students would enjoy doing that and learn a lot from it. but i understand that would require a lot more teaching and a lot more on there part
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#8 skyhawk133   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:20 PM

I would actually disagree and say that for a class setting, notepad is best. We don't even allow dreamweaver here at work because it encourages bad coding practices for the less than qualified folks.

I'd rather have someone know what the wysiwyg is doing before using it... this way if it does something they don't want, they can click "Code" and actually understand what's going on.

I think a lot of students become dependent on wysiwyg editors and never actually learn the code, even if that's the intent.
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#9 PsychoCoder   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:40 PM

I agree & disagree SkyHawk, programs like Visual Studio 2005 & Visual Web Developer force XHTML Compliance which is important to me (at least as far as compliance goes) and shows the user where they went wrong as far as being compliant. I think some IDE's are good for beginners just for showing how to write compliant HTML,a and when they write something that isn't compliant it shows them what to use to make it compliant.

I guess it's only important to me as all the websites I create for clients (well the new ones at least) display the W3C XHTML Compliant Badge
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#10 onebigm16   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 30 July 2007 - 12:50 PM

I understand both sides. for me personally its much easier working with visual web developer then notepad but thats because i haven't memorized all of the tags. i guess it depends on the person and how they learn. I would like to here what other people think on this subject.

This post has been edited by onebigm16: 30 July 2007 - 12:55 PM

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#11 Arbitrator   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:44 AM

With regard to teaching, I would focus on terminology, indentation, validation, and semantics. You should also probably mention character encoding, Unicode, and use of special characters briefly.

You could also touch on the DOM (ECMAScript/Javascript) since scripting seems to be an everyday thing nowadays.

The various browsers in use should be mentioned; on Windows, those would be Firefox (2), Internet Explorer (7), Opera (9), and Safari (3) (beta). That browser bugs are a common occurrence should be noted and the student should code for a compliant browser and subsequently adjust for Internet Explorer. You might point out helpful tools like the Web Developer extension for Firefox or the Internet Explorer Developer Toolbar from Microsoft.

If the pages are to be published, you should find some place that doesn’t insert ads since what is usually garbage code is inserted and affects the rendering.

Of course, the biggest problem here is actually knowing this stuff yourself or a willingness to look it up and ask questions. I’ve had a Webmastering (high school) teacher and an Intro. to Computers (college) instructor who were both totally clueless. I was basically teaching the class (HTML only; the rest was a bunch of busy work since she was clueless) for the first one (even though I was still doing table layouts back then) and the second one was teaching HTML (without CSS) from 1995 (in 2007).

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What are the new standards for HTML and CSS? want to make sure that i teach them new standards not the old.
Currently, the most compatible HTML standard is version 4.01; I would not teach XHTML. With regard to CSS, I would refer to version 2.1, although references to CSS3 would probably be necessary for properties such as opacity.

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I agree & disagree SkyHawk, programs like Visual Studio 2005 & Visual Web Developer force XHTML Compliance which is important to me (at least as far as compliance goes) and shows the user where they went wrong as far as being compliant.
IMO, beginners should not be coding XHTML unless the instructor feels like teaching it as XML. In that case, things like file extensions, media types, marked CDATA sections, and the fact that Internet Explorer doesn’t support XHTML need to be explained. HTML 4.01 Strict is likely what should be taught. If you want to teach XHTML as XML, then the *.xht and *.xhtml file extensions should be used.

View Postonebigm16, on 30 Jul, 2007 - 02:50 PM, said:

I understand both sides. for me personally its much easier working with visual web developer then notepad but thats because i haven't memorized all of the tags. i guess it depends on the person and how they learn. I would like to here what other people think on this subject.
Personally, I would force beginners to use only source code view, regardless of the editor. You might still introduce them to a WYSIWYG editor but force them to use source code view. I would also make sure that the editor is free rather than some expensive stuff that the school can afford but the student cannot; the student should be able to go home and download it without buying anything. The editor that I currently use is Notepad++ (Windows only) if you want to try that out; I’ve also heard that jEdit is good and cross‐platform for another.
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#12 onebigm16   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:51 PM

thank you for all of your help these things will help me in the weeks and months to come. since visual web developer is free and i think some of the things like finishing that tags and underline errors are very helpfully to beginners i that that would be a good place to start and like you said force them to use the source editor. I would like to hear more from some web developers so that i can make a good assessment from different sources and then bring that to the official teacher and see what he thinks from the pros . Thank you all keep of the helpful info for me.
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#13 bigdawg24   User is offline

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Re: Teaching Class Need Help…

Posted 19 August 2007 - 10:37 AM

View PostTopher84, on 30 Jul, 2007 - 10:59 AM, said:

Since its just highschool and it doesn't matter much i'd go w/ some flash development with small basic loaders/webpages. You can snag all kinds of decent books off amazon.com or even some stuff off here and other online websites devoted solely to flash programming.

I agree to this. I remember teaching myself HTML when I was 12. I am 24 now and it is STILL USED! I am a web-developer now and most of the software I use still requires me to code in html. A lot of code isn't necessary since Dreamweaver and Frontpage does a lot of work, but the individual building the website needs some HTML knowledge. So be sure and introduce it to your students. Dont worry about going any further than basics, if the pupil likes it they will get what they need to know through self-teaching and possible college/further education classes. Everything I know was self-taught. Although I have lost a lot of skill from not doing the work (until recently) its still useful. Regardless... dont get the students overloaded
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