[SlashRaid]

Seems Be Inc. has filed suit against Microsoft, the focus being the whole "daul boot" issue with Hitachi. M$'s restrictive Windows licensing prevented PC makers from selling other systems with alternative operating systems. Sounds like a good fight to me, just hope Be has enough money to stay at with the beast.

Resources:

• NetworkWorldFusion
  
• The Register

[skyhawk133]

Yeh, totally... I think of all the lame lawsuits I've heard... this is probably one of the better ones! I think they actually have a chance of winning this suit. That's pretty shady of M$ to go telling companies what they can or can't do.
:hawk:

[The Neoracle]

Well, Palm owns them now so there should be enough cash.  I really don't see the point though, I thought Palm bought the company to just get rid of the OS?  But yeah, sounds like M$ is gonna be coughing up some more money.

[SlashRaid]

Palm only got the majority of the business. Be Inc. still retains rights to go after M$. I believe that was a key part of the deal. I'm sure Be Inc. still stands to profit from Palm, I'm sure if they use the name or OS be will get royalties. Plus Be Inc. got a large amount of Palm Stock in return for the sale.

[Vetritus03]

can you imagine the confusion for a PC buyer getting a computer with *ghasp* TWO operating systems loaded on it!?!  my biggest problem with people on the phone while i was at gateway was to press the "2" key on the keyboard when the "boot from hard disk / boot from CD-ROM" menu came up for booting to a restoration CD.  this is not rocket science, but you'd be suprised how many people needs 2 or 3 reboots to get it right.  giving people a choice is a big issue for not only M$ but also PC makers and support personel.  can you imagine all the calls that would come in on day one asking "what is this menu i'm getting on boot?" or "what is BeOS?" or "i'm stuck on this screen..."  how about another issue: drivers?  i realize that BeOS had, in many ways, more support for hardware than Linux/UNIX did at the time, but talk about a nightmare of walking someone through installing drivers for not one, but TWO OSes on the same phone call.  you'd have to train your people on a new OS.  and it's not like WinXp where it all looks generally the same as every other windows version.  BeOS isn't made by M$, and therefore "different".
and i don't need to tell you what could happen if M$ had a "competitor."  people would want BeOS compatible software... perhaps even... a BeOS compatible version of Office.  how about if people were jacking up windows files while inside BeOS?  deleting that little explorer.exe file just might cause a problem...
so, don't look at it as M$ totally pushing everyone around.  this could have been a win-win situation.  and besides.  anyone who wanted BeOS on their system in any fashion would have gone to BestBuy and bought a copy.  
and actually i heard Palm bought up Be because they wanted all the fantastic engineering talent that they had.  i mean ####.  they had people who could write for the PowerPC as well and PC platforms and who designed like the only "real" contender to Windows.  now, they just want more money, so why not jump on the bandwagon and sue M$?  ####, if i had a reason, i'd be after some easy money myself!

[The Neoracle]

The point though, is that M$ wouldn't let Computer companies give it's customers the choice.  I doubt that any Computer company would just start installing BeOS on thier machines, but it' would be nice to have the choice of getting Windows, Linux, or Be or any combo.  Just like you can chose whether you want an AMD or a P4. To most people they could careless and they just this those little blue guys are SOOOO funny.  

[SlashRaid]

Well put there Neoracle. It's about the choice, not all computer users are morons.... Some of us would like a choice on what we are buying!

Here are a couple of update links on the matter:

• OS Opinion Very good read!
  
• C|Net's News.com

(Edited by SlashRaid at 10:34 am on Feb. 21, 2002)

[Quik]

I think its bull that MS has to make their program a certain way.

Popular or not MS shouldnt have to make their OS work for other companies. Its no their problem to deal with.
Its THEIR SOFTWARE. SO they should make it however they like.
NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY MICROSOFT PRODUCTS
Therfore you shouldnt complain.

[SlashRaid]

Quote

Quote: from Quik on 12:19 pm on Feb. 21, 2002

NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY MICROSOFT PRODUCTS
Therfore you shouldnt complain.

Dude, WTF man! You tell me why I have to buy a dell PC w/ M$ apps! Why can't get another OS or even no OS! Why can't I buy a BeBox, because Microsoft killed them. Thier restrictive licensing won't even let me choose a dual boot working out of the box! Come on, no one is saying anything about how the product is made. It's the inability of others to compete in the market, that is unfair and monopolistic. As a consumer you should be alarmed at your lack of choice!

Really, what office apps do you use? Why did you choose that app? Did you even choose? How about your OS, you choose that or was it preinstalled on your PC? If you choose it why?

[The Neoracle]

This would be like Konomi (sp?) telling Sony that they won't put out any games for the PS2 unless they are the only ones putting out games for it.  

(bad example but you get the idea).

No one is saying that M$ has to make their software a certian way, but telling a computer compnay  that they can only install windows on thier machines is illegal and wrong.  

I got โ on BeOS. Anyone wanna take this bet?

[Quik]

Ok, nerocale is right.. I mis-read this..
But there WAS a issue with ms awhile ago that people complained how ms made it so they cant run their app.
to bad!

[supersloth]

yup, its all about the choic, just because some users couldnt figure out how to run anything not made by M$ doesnt mean that those of us who can, should be denied because M$ just wants more money then its already got. this would be like dell going to compusa and saying you cant sell macs.

and its spelled Konami, ;) but good analogy. :)

[SlashRaid]

I personally would like to 404's opinion on the matter. He's been MIA for a bit, but I have seen a few posts cropping up. Anything to say BeOS Guru?

[Vetritus03]

now, i know it's a small token, but M$ actually offered WindowsXP source code to many of the largest software/hardware manufactures in an effort to ensure product compatability for the launch.  of course the only catch was the confidentiality of the code.  if i remember right something rediculous like 9 out of 10 companies rejected the offer.  what's wrong with keeping someone else's product a secret while making yours better?  ummm... nothing.  of course i wasn't at one of those companies, so i can't say for sure what all M$ told them they could and couldn't do.  
i also seem to remember Dell selling PCs with Linux installed on them.  Dell would seem to be a bigger PC Mfg. (at least in most places) than Hitachi.  i don't think M$ really cared about that.  and they discontinued selling PCs with Linux because of the lack of profitability (read: little interest).  
and let's see... why do i use office?  because it's compatable.  period.  i use Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint Outlook, and Project on a regular basis.  another reason to use office?  because i can make a table or graph in excel and instantaneously bring it into word without thinking of converters/filters etc.  it just works!  and i can use WordXP and save my document in a Word95 format if i wish... as well as numerous other formats.  and i don't use office just because it came with my PC (most people do) but i pira... errr... obtained my eval copy of OfficeXp independent of Gateway.  i also have a fully legal copy of PowerPoint and Project that i actually *ghasp* bought myself.  why, because they are the best industry standard tools for the jobs they perform.  why are they industry standard?  1. because M$ forces itself upon all of our poor souls... and 2. because they have a high stability and compatability.
and another idea to throw out at you.  i don't exactly know what you speak of with some progs not running on windows.  if it's a Mac vs. Windows issue, that's plain.  but i've not seen a prog yet not run on WindowsXP.  even my old Win95/DOS X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter game runs!  look up compatability in the help section and it'll pull up a whole crap load of fixes.  also, there is a tool on the XP CD that will allow you to systematicly set differing options to make progs work.  the diferent versions of windows included numerous changes that added/deleted files such as .dlls and such to improve performance.  they also made dramatic changes in the way memory was accessed to improve reliability.  these are just two changes made between versions.  there are tons more. i think the list on the compat tool has over 300 fixes. for everything from WinNT3.51 to WinMe.  if your program worked in another version of windows i'm sure you can make it work in Xp.
and slash.  no one said you have to buy a branded PC.  i'm sure you have enough knowlege to build your own.  why is Dell and everyone else selling PCs with M$ OSs and Apps?  because that's what over 80% of people want!  they want what their neighbor has.  what their daughter just bought.  they want to surf the net.  they want joe blow down the street to be able to know what they want when they call him up.  they want the name Windows. and Microsoft.  they think it's GOLD!  it's what works and works well.  not perfectly mind you.  but it works.  like i said before, if you want choice, do what smart people do and DON'T buy a branded PC.  buy parts and build one.  go to best buy and buy Linux/Be/whatever adn install it.  M$ can't touch that.  question is... will you find as many apps for Be or Linux as you can find for windows?
There IS choice in the M$ realm.  but you have to go out and BUY it.  
and not to argue Neoracle.  but Dell and Gateway dropped the AMD line of processors.  anyone think M$ has it in for AMD too?

[SlashRaid]

That's exactly what I have done. I have built 3 different systems all for the above reasons.

I know the arguments both for and against M$. If it were a perfect world we'd have healthy competion, several OS's and Office suites, an zero problems with exchanges between them!

I use XP, and I paid full price for it! :sad: I use office97 at work on WIn98. Linux and Unix are hobbies. I have no problem knowing that I have to go to my M$ Box to play my favorite game. As far as office goes, I have never had problems between StarOffice and MS Office (97,XP). This is all just fun and games.

I just wish thier where more choices, and more folks that wanted a choice. With out the compatability issues of course.