[ConciselyVerbose]

Without a gun he doesn't get out of the car.

[macosxnerd101]

@atraub: Would you actually follow someone you suspected of a crime (especially without a gun) and engage them? Especially if they aren't breaking into your car or house? I don't wish anyone dead, but if a confrontation happened without a gun and Zimmerman got killed over it, well, there is natural selection for you. It's not like these safety rules aren't taught to us for as long as we can remember.

[atraub]

ConciselyVerbose, on 16 July 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

Without a gun he doesn't get out of the car.

We can play the what-if game all day. It's certainly possible though.

macosxnerd101, on 16 July 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

@atraub: Would you actually follow someone you suspected of a crime (especially without a gun) and engage them? Especially if they aren't breaking into your car or house? I don't wish anyone dead, but if a confrontation happened without a gun and Zimmerman got killed over it, well, there is natural selection for you. It's not like these safety rules aren't taught to us for as long as we can remember.

I never said it was a responsible life decision. However, life decisions and proper handling of a firearm are distinctly different things. That's all I'm saying.

[macosxnerd101]

Quote

I never said it was a responsible life decision. However, life decisions and proper handling of a firearm are distinctly different things.

In general, yes. This isn't the case here though.

[jon.kiparsky]

So you think that it's fine that he made "bad life decisions" and that this got some kid killed for no reason other than to satisfy Zimmerman's cop fantasies, and you don't think that an untrained amateur carrying a weapon into a situation that he's completely unprepared for is improper handling of a firearm?

Are you ever going to talk sense? I mean, just try it once for fun and see if you like it!


EDIT:
Oh, forget it. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't own up to their own words. It's not surprising that you're embarrassed by the things you say, but at least you could man up and admit it.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 15 July 2013 - 10:24 PM

[atraub]

jon.kiparsky, on 16 July 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

So you think that it's fine that he made "bad life decisions" and that this got some kid killed for no reason other than to satisfy Zimmerman's cop fantasies, and you don't think that an untrained amateur carrying a weapon into a situation that he's completely unprepared for is improper handling of a firearm?

Whether or not Zimmerman is squeaky clean, I am inclined to believe that TM did strike first. As far as I'm concerned, there was no reason to attack a man that was following you. Is following people on dark streets a good idea? Nope, but it doesn't justify attempted murder.

Quote

Are you ever going to talk sense? I mean, just try it once for fun and see if you like it!

Glad you got that whole respect thing down. Could you stop now?

Quote

EDIT:
Oh, forget it. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't own up to their own words. It's not surprising that you're embarrassed by the things you say, but at least you could man up and admit it.

What are you talking about? Anything I've said is listed on the forum and it's not hidden. I might put in a few edits to expand on certain points, but I really try not to change the meaning of anything I write.

This post has been edited by atraub: 15 July 2013 - 10:33 PM

[macosxnerd101]

@atraub: If you're going to claim Zimmerman was being responsible with his gun, let's first get a good working definition of responsible gun ownership.

This rule from the NRA struck me as interesting. If Zimmerman had no intention of using his gun, why was it loaded to begin with? If it was loaded and he was being responsible, that implies that he had intent to use it. If he had intent to use it and he was being responsible, there should have been reason. The reason he got out of the car was some sort of confrontation with Martin (verbal, at least). If he had the gun loaded, he must have suspected danger. At which point, I would ask- why get out of the car? Is it responsible as a civilian to go into a situation where there is danger and you need a gun? Hence, the contradiction.

Quote

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

[ConciselyVerbose]

Why all the hostility? I don't get it.

[atraub]

If you're carrying the gun for self protection, it makes little sense not to keep it loaded while it's on your person. Just keep the safety on. If you're keeping it in your home and don't suspect an immediate threat, keep it unloaded.

EDIT:

ConciselyVerbose, on 16 July 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

Why all the hostility? I don't get it.

Me neither man, I wish it would stop though. It's sad that I can't have differing opinions on controversial issues without basically being called a retard />/>

EDIT 2:
I hadn't heard of any verbal confrontation from the car. Is there something in the case evidence to back that up or is that just speculation? Whoops, misread what you said. It's equally likely that he just wanted to watch TM to see where he was going so that he could point the guy out to the police when they arrived. Nothing about his behavior overwhelmingly leads me to believe he was expecting a confrontation.

This post has been edited by atraub: 15 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

[jon.kiparsky]

I'm talking about your unwillingness to address or even cop to the things you've said. When you take a position, and someone confronts you with it, and you deny it, you do yourself no favors. Particularly when the forum you're arguing in consists of a written record.

I'm done. There's no point arguing with you.

[atraub]

jon.kiparsky, on 16 July 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'm talking about your unwillingness to address or even cop to the things you've said. When you take a position, and someone confronts you with it, and you deny it, you do yourself no favors. Particularly when the forum you're arguing in consists of a written record.

I'm done. There's no point arguing with you.

And what have I denied? What do you want from me? You're not making much sense here.

EDIT:
From my perspective, this is what's happening:

"Rawr! You won't own up to your perspective!!"
What are you talking about?
"I'm talking about your unwillingness to address or even cop to the things you've said!! I'm done talking to you!"
Ohhh... ok?


EDIT 2:
I guess it's less fun when they don't flame back.

This post has been edited by atraub: 15 July 2013 - 10:57 PM

[macosxnerd101]

Quote

Whoops, misread what you said. It's equally likely that he just wanted to watch TM to see where he was going so that he could point the guy out to the police when they arrived. Nothing about his behavior overwhelmingly leads me to believe he was expecting a confrontation.

Then why did he get out of the car? "Likely" refers to an unknown. He got out of the car and approached Martin. The likelihood that he wanted to just watch Martin to see where he was going is 0.

[atraub]

macosxnerd101, on 16 July 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Quote

Whoops, misread what you said. It's equally likely that he just wanted to watch TM to see where he was going so that he could point the guy out to the police when they arrived. Nothing about his behavior overwhelmingly leads me to believe he was expecting a confrontation.

Then why did he get out of the car? "Likely" refers to an unknown. He got out of the car and approached Martin. The likelihood that he wanted to just watch Martin to see where he was going is 0.

When they went to the crime scene, they indicated that TM had gone between the roads where Zimmerman could no longer see him from his car.

[macosxnerd101]

It's still a stupid decision regardless. It goes back to the whole safety rules point. Again, the 911 dispatcher told him not to do it.

[atraub]

No argument here that it's a stupid life decision.