What's your most controversial programming opinion?

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168 Replies - 37913 Views - Last Post: 17 February 2015 - 10:06 AM

#91 Valek   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

View PostMichael26, on 27 August 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Here is the link


Okay, I'll bite.

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I was struck recently while I was at the grocery store with my girlfriend, ruffling through stacks of fresh fruits and vegetables to find all the ingredients for a meal. Why can’t coding be more like this? I thought, more like picking ingredients for a meal. Learning C is like learning the genetic sequencing of a tomato. While it certainly is required for the tomato to exist, I don’t need to be familiar with it to slice it and put it together with a list of ingredients. It’s outside the resolution of knowledge required for preparing a meal.


What he's expressing here is exactly what every cut-and-paste coder wishes to have answered: why isn't all of the legwork already done for me? Why aren't there classes that do everything I want done in exactly the way I want them done that I can just glue together?

Software is very complex, and as a result, it would be difficult to impossible to have the cookie-cutter answers for every possible human thought. This is what would be required to make programming "easy".

Aside from that, doing programming in this manner would strip out the ability to be creative and innovative with it, because everyone would use the same building blocks. Someone's still got to build those building blocks, though ;)

Quote

On top of that, if every would-be chef needed to know the genetic sequence of a tomato before he or she constructed a meal, they’d probably never get around to the cooking. In fact, they’d probably never become a chef in the first place, because they, naturally, would not have been a very good geneticist.


This is a poor comparison. Genetics are entirely different from code. For programming, it takes the same skills to create classes as it does to string them together into an effective piece of software. This guy wants the engineering out of software and wants it to be more like design, where everything is visually oriented and you don't have to think so much about moving parts and efficiency.

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In the meantime, the rest of us could benefit from a programming language which doesn’t require years to learn. In short, we need a language for those of us who are skilled in fields other than mathematics. We need a language which embraces a more natural syntax (yes its possible) and a language which allows junior developers to both define and script without using a term-base which has grown to an astronomical size.


Okay, so this guy is basically saying "Everyone should be able to be a programmer". Look at every other profession. They all require study and practice to become effective at. Programming is the same way. Why should it suddenly be so different? Is it because, since it's essentially "writing" (it's not), it should somehow be accessible to everyone? Writing code and learning how software functions is fundamentally no different than building robots or working on a car. It requires knowledge of the tools and moving parts, and how it all fits together. How would someone translate this "everyone should be able to do it" mentality to other tasks? Would they, even?

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Can the complex branches of C be condensed into a series of objects which can be strung together using natural language? I think so, but for the moment it’s far beyond my ability. I do know that we cannot continue down a path of increasingly complexity in programming languages, if only that it will eventually become impenetrable to all but the most dedicated users. This artificial barrier will keep the expression of thousands or maybe millions of voices from reaching users.


Okay, so who wants to volunteer to make painting super simple? How about good writing? Music production? Sure, there are plenty of creative people out there who may have great ideas, but aren't skilled enough in these areas to make it reality either.

In short, as Martyr2 has said earlier in this thread, programming really isn't for everyone.
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#92 modi123_1   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

View PostBenignDesign, on 27 August 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

... snip ...
I truly hope you're right, but sadly... I think there are a few of these folks in the world... right here on these boards, even.


What? On these boards? Say it ain't so!

Trouble, oh we got trouble, Right here in DIC City! With a capital "T" that rhymes with "P" And that stands for 'Programmers'!

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#93 BenignDesign   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:45 AM

Indeed, they post among us. Faceless. Cold. Dedicoders.

I think every profession should come with a Shirley Jones musical.

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#94 modi123_1   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

I am half considering starting a thread to gather some group ideas, songs, themes, and music sounds bites for "Programming - The Musical".
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#95 supersloth   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostBenignDesign, on 27 August 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

View Postdepricated, on 27 August 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

View Postsupersloth, on 26 August 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

View Postdepricated, on 26 August 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

View Postsupersloth, on 26 August 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

so in a lot less words.... you are NOT the 'i live to code type' and actually live a life.
I think I find a balance in the things I love

SO THEN YOU AREN'T THE KIND OF PERSON B9 AND I ARE DESCRIBING IS THIS REALLY THAT HARD

I think the kind of person you and B9 are describing doesn't exist! It's a charicature.


I truly hope you're right, but sadly... I think there are a few of these folks in the world... right here on these boards, even.

they come here and describe themselves that way, all the time, so i think we've got a pretty good basis to believe those people exist, if only in their own minds. (and, like i stated earlier, they are usually just idiot students who are trying to sound cool)
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#96 lordofduct   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:33 AM

What's wrong with living to code? To feel your purpose in life is to code.

Believing your purpose is to write code doesn't necessarily mean that you only code. You still can do other things, while striving towards your desire to do something specific that you feel gives you purpose.

I think you're misunderstanding what people mean when they say their purpose in life is to do X.

My grandfather felt purpose in life as a farmer. It's not the only thing he did, it's just what he felt he was meant to do and he strived toward that.

I feel my purpose in life is to code. I thoroughly enjoy it. It makes me feel valuable in this otherwise meaningless universe. I write code every day for at least a few hours. When I'm on vacation I get antsy to return to work. I come from a family of workaholics who are depressed if they don't have a job, a job they enjoy.


But, that's not what you're talking about. You're beating up the semantics of some statement, but your bastardizing your own semantics in the process. You're referring to those who naively state that it's all they want to do, when really it's not, and they say it so they look "cool". Well they aren't the "I live to code" type, they are the "I say what I think others want to hear so that I look cool" type. If it wasn't a programming forum, it wouldn't be "code" it'd be "mechanic" or "rock climbing".

And you're giving those who actually do passionately live to code a bad name by equating them to people who say it just to say it. Then again those who really are passionate, don't spend a lot of time saying it. But again, your words are pointing at those who exist, and only use those who say it as the evidence of their existence. But you're critiquing them as not actually saying it in truth, which means they aren't evidence that the people who actually "live to code" do actually exist... so... logic... bad.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 27 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

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#97 supersloth   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

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#98 lordofduct   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:04 AM

I'm unclear as to what the implication of your image is.
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#99 supersloth   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:15 AM

that it was the first one i clicked on in my bookmarks.
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#100 lordofduct   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:23 AM

So meaningless as a response to anything, and therefore worth just ignoring, and meaning you have nothing to say in response to the fact that you're picking fun at a group who say meaningless crap on the internet.

Woah is the mock turtle.
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#101 DarenR   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

View Postdepricated, on 26 August 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Agile is just another management fad

it means:

We don't plan as much as we should
We don't document as much as we should
We don't have a clearly defined production-state of the project
We test our code in production



ha we do all the above---- and then they wonder why they fail bank audits
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#102 supersloth   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:28 AM

ok let me clear this up

  • 1. if you have no work-life balance, i feel sorry for you
  • if you brag about it on the internet, i feel even more sorry for you
  • if you are an idiot student, who has no work life balance, i continue to feel sorry for you
  • if you are an idiot student, who tells people they have no work life balance to sound cool on the internet, i feel really sorry for you [edit: i'm also sure that once you live some life outside of the computer you will stop doing this, but in the meantime i will ridicule you for it. one day you'll understand]
  • we have people who post here all the time who fit in any one of these categories, i haven't done a scientific study so i can't give you breakdowns, SORRY
  • if you have work life balance, i'm happy for you, you obviously don't fit in any of those categories despite your love for programming, GOOD FOR YOU. attaboy.
  • if you feel like you were born to program and you enjoy it, that's awesome! i still hope you have work life balance and do other things.

This post has been edited by supersloth: 27 August 2013 - 10:31 AM

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#103 depricated   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:34 AM

I literally live for supersloth's approval

I've been fishing for that attaboy for years
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#104 supersloth   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

believe me, we are all very aware.
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#105 lordofduct   User is offline

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Re: What's your most controversial programming opinion?

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

I think the hitch is on the definition of "life" and "work".

What is life but what I choose it to be.

What is work if I do what I love to do, and would do if it weren't my work and was my life.

My grandfather tended to livestock from 5am to 8pm, day in and day out. To many it was work, to him it was life.
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