[supersloth]

http://devizen.com/b...007/09/11/ruin/

Quote

The application of programming specific processes and habits to the everyday is where peril lies. The same traits that make you a great programmer can make you an awkward, misunderstood and miserable human being.

THOUGHTS!?

[snoj]

It's pretty true. However I disagree with his "silent conclusion" that some aspects to programmers are unchangeable.

[Martyr2]

Well the world is going to hell in a hand basket either way. If the world was full of programmers, we would have kick ass instant messengers, browsers, open source software, not weapons of mass destruction, ignorance, racism and terrorism.

At least when the world ends and we all have our faces melted off by an eventual nuclear attack or the rays of sun creeping through the withering cloud cover, I will die at the PC... hopefully on DIC... my last breath saying faintly... "God I can't believe you forgot to declare main()!"

[PennyBoki]

Martyr2, on 11 Sep, 2007 - 11:17 PM, said:

Well the world is going to hell in a hand basket either way. If the world was full of programmers, we would have kick ass instant messengers, browsers, open source software, not weapons of mass destruction, ignorance, racism and terrorism.

At least when the world ends and we all have our faces melted off by an eventual nuclear attack or the rays of sun creeping through the withering cloud cover, I will die at the PC... hopefully on DIC... my last breath saying faintly... "God I can't believe you forgot to declare main()!"

that was deep

[1lacca]

Everything can ruin your life.

[fooboo]

Life ruined my programming.

[PsychoCoder]

I agree with some points, but strongly disagree with others. I buy the physical aspects of programming being horrible on ones body (not the chair part, where I work they spent over $700 on our chairs, they had chairs specially designed for them). But I have a real hard time agreeing with other parts of his argument.

Being a programmer has made me good at problem solving in the real world. I believe the changes you make in yourself are noticed, and have an effect, whether it be good or bad. Yes I will think about a programming problem until I have en efficient solution, no I will not write inefficient code but I dont live in the real world that way. I believe in time every good programmer learns to separate the 2.

Granted when I first started programming I more than likely lived my life that way, but over the years Ive learned to separate my programming worl from the real world. Maybe thats just me, but I have to disagree with many of his points.

[Nova Dragoon]

Martyr2, on 12 Sep, 2007 - 12:17 AM, said:

If the world was full of programmers, we would have kick ass instant messengers, browsers, open source software.

No, a lot of programmers I know, suck at programming.

Take away their point and click, drag and drop VS IDE, or VB and they can hardly code hello world.

[Amadeus]

[fooboo]

<preface>This is not a boast just factual</preface>

When I got started coding properly for a living I went straight to a firm writing J2ME in a text editor and compiling it with ant command line compiler.
This actually proved a disadvantage when I first started learning VS .Net as I was so used to doing everything myself I got confused trying to do it with VS as I kept looking for things it turned out I didn't need. It took a lot of mental wrangling for me to allow myself to sit back and let the IDE create most of the program.

Once I realised that the IDE started the program off for you and that the APIs did a load of the work for you I settled down and started learning it properly.

[Martyr2]

Nova Dragoon, on 12 Sep, 2007 - 06:08 AM, said:

Martyr2, on 12 Sep, 2007 - 12:17 AM, said:

If the world was full of programmers, we would have kick ass instant messengers, browsers, open source software.

No, a lot of programmers I know, suck at programming.

Take away their point and click, drag and drop VS IDE, or VB and they can hardly code hello world.

In a world of programmers those people would be considered the homeless asking for change. Then you could say "learn hello world and get a job!"

jk

Good points made.

[corliss]

fooboo, on 12 Sep, 2007 - 03:33 AM, said:

Life ruined my programming.

Awesome.
I have been trying to code my life for years now, but the syntax is all messed up.
I also think that the world trashing. Why cant we go back to the 80's and code and play games in the smoke filled arcades.
I think coders add alot of great things to an otherwise messed up world, but hey we also code wepons of mass destruction.

This post has been edited by corliss: 12 September 2007 - 11:22 AM

[supersloth]

Sorry I couldn't write anything on the subject yesterday, I was tired and had to get to sleep early.

Ok, so I think the article is a little overzealous, but it most definitely raises some excellent points. Reading thru it I could go 'I do that, and that, and sometimes that'.

Some of the points the article makes are pretty dumb, things like the food thing. I think that like always comes down to the person and their habits, and their personal choices. It's a choice to eat healthy and exercise or not, and I don't really believe just because someone sits at a computer all day it is going to affect what choice they would make.

I do however think the article makes some great points about how we interact with the world around us. People don't act or make decisions like computers, they seem to lack logic a lot of times, and I'd wager more than a few of us get frustrated with people because they don't make the kind of decisions we would in their place, the logical one.

This is a great section for the article:

Quote

You will constantly be mapping out flows and running the permutations through your head. Back in the real world, you will find yourself piecing together plans of breath-taking size and beauty that simultaneously resolve multiple problems and fulfill numerous dreams. You will attempt to kill every bird with one stone. The impossibility of actualizing these plans will be agonizing, yet your mind will continue to pour over every detail as it seeks to anticipate every possible outcome and construct the perfect solution.

Everything is now data. Every bit is worthy of attention. Every interaction is worthy of analysis. Your mind has been trained to do this since it is usually the insignificant or subtle bits that have to be rooted out when debugging. You will find it frustrating that everyone else does not collect and analyze data. You will notice details that others simply gloss over. Your penchant for detail and over-analysis will earn you strange glances and confused shrugs. Your decision making process will resemble that of your peers less and less.

The frantic pace of the software world will instill in you a sense of panic and urgency. You must do everything now. Tomorrow is too late. The thought of working constantly will no longer seem foreign or ridiculous. You will spend your free time feeling guilty about not working. But you will be working. Your hands may not be at the keyboard, but your mind will be.

And I see that in myself, and I see that in the interaction I have with a lot (not all, but a lot) of you. Everyone always talks about how the last book they read was Photorealism and Ray Tracing in C for Borland for Dummies Studios, that they spent all weekend at the computer drinking dew and working on their next programs. Guys, sometimes that sucks. Skool and work make it really easy to get lost in everything and stop interacting with real people on a real level sometimes. We try and rationalize it, "without programmers we wouldn't have this and this and this". SHUT UP. Programming is awesome, programming is a profession, but programming is not life. Sometimes we just need to take a step back and relax for a bit.

That's what I got from the article at least.

[skyhawk133]

Concur.

[Martyr2]

Quote

I do however think the article makes some great points about how we interact with the world around us. People don't act or make decisions like computers, they seem to lack logic a lot of times, and I'd wager more than a few of us get frustrated with people because they don't make the kind of decisions we would in their place, the logical one.

You are absolutely right on this one super. I get very frustrated with it all but I am ok with what I am and the way I think. I have had classes in pure logic, I have a science degree and pretty much have a scientific mind. I see the world in more black and white and less in shades of gray than others. It isolates me at times, I am not exactly the center of the attention and I like it that way. I am fully aware of how programming has changed my thinking. But if I have to go back to acting like that I guy I saw yesterday who ran into a mailbox, I think I would kill myself.