[depricated]

Right - by the same token isn't it be irresponsible to get people drunk, watch them pound down shots for last call, then close down your bar and make everyone leave - only calling a taxi if asked?

[Bort]

Nanny state or no nanny state, I would have hoped that retailers would show at least a little bit of common sense (although reading that sentence makes me realise how idiotic it sounds - retailers, with common sense? Only if it doesn't get in the way of profit). As it stands, being able to buy beer and gas/petrol at the same time, from the same place really does give the impression that drinking while driving is fine.

Doubly clever when you consider that Americans are taught to drive in school, years before they are allowed to start drinking legally. How many of these garages/gas stations do you think are at least partially responsible for underage drinking in the states?

[depricated]

Not many. I spent years working in retail, including a gas station. Police regularly sent 19y/o kids in to buy beer and slap a fine on the store and arrest the cashier if they sold the beer. Also, they've started throwing people in prison as accomplice to DUI if it's found they bought they were intoxicated when they were sold alcohol and caused harm or property damage.

[Craig328]

Not sure why you're hung up on all the other stuff the merchant is selling in addition to beer and wine and why that makes any kind of difference. Grocery stores sell baby diapers and Budweiser. From that association are we supposed to be outraged that there is some attempt to join the two products and promote underage drinking?

Why is it bothering you that you "drive to the gas station and buy beer" but "drive to the liquor store and buy beer" seems okay? Because they also sell gas? Is that it?

You want to really manufacture an entirely fallacious outrage consider that Walmarts here sell ammunition, guns AND beer and wine. AND most people DRIVE to and from said Walmarts to do their shopping...and many Walmarts also sell GASOLINE!

So there's a properly false combination to wad panties over.

[Bort]

depricated, on 14 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not many. I spent years working in retail, including a gas station. Police regularly sent 19y/o kids in to buy beer and slap a fine on the store and arrest the cashier if they sold the beer. Also, they've started throwing people in prison as accomplice to DUI if it's found they bought they were intoxicated when they were sold alcohol and caused harm or property damage.

Ah, yes. That is called entrapment, and is illegal in this country. I always forget the police can get away with such things in the US.

Craig328, on 14 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Not sure why you're hung up on all the other stuff the merchant is selling in addition to beer and wine and why that makes any kind of difference. Grocery stores sell baby diapers and Budweiser. From that association are we supposed to be outraged that there is some attempt to join the two products and promote underage drinking?

Why is it bothering you that you "drive to the gas station and buy beer" but "drive to the liquor store and buy beer" seems okay? Because they also sell gas? Is that it?

You want to really manufacture an entirely fallacious outrage consider that Walmarts here sell ammunition, guns AND beer and wine. AND most people DRIVE to and from said Walmarts to do their shopping...and many Walmarts also sell GASOLINE!

So there's a properly false combination to wad panties over.

Diapers and Budweiser. Tell me, is that Bud sold in a diaper store? Or do regular stores just happen to sell both of them? If the former, then yeah, it's the same kind of thing to what I am saying about gas stations and alcohol (maybe not encouraging underage drinking, but certainly encouraging irresponsible parenting). If not, if it is just a general store, it's a straw man argument.

Driving to places to buy beer isn't an issue. Most off licenses over here have signs up reminding people of the penalties if they drink and drive. Do your gas stations do that? The issue is going to buy gas, and being able to stand at the counter and when the cashier asks 'Is there anything else?' being able to say 'Well, I do fancy a drink, pass me a case of Bud.' and cracking one open on the way back to the car. Encouraging irresponsibility.

And putting aside the petrol and beer for a moment. Frankly, I think having a grocery store that sells guns and ammo is just silly. Yeah, ok, guns are legal in the US, let's keep that an argument for elsewhere, so there is no reason not to stock them, but at the same time, is it really necessary to have guns on display every time you stop at Walmart to pick up bread and milk?

[h4nnib4l]

The "convenience stores" in which that beer is purchased sell an array of snacks, hot food, beverages, even things like batteries and ibuprofen and gloves. It's almost like they're mini-general stores.

If I'm not looking for *good* beer, I usually pick it up at the mini-general store/gas station nearest my house. Often, I'll get gas at the same time. I have never once been even tempted to open one. In fact, if anything I'd be MORE tempted to drink and drive if I got the beer at the liquor store, because it's a longer drive, and neither place reminds me that it's illegal to do so (fortunately, I have a decent memory).

EDIT: Just finished reading your last post - what TV shows are you watching that have you convinced that Americans buy beer at gas stations and start drinking in the fucking parking lot?

EDIT EDIT: Also, WalMart is the ultimate general store. Maybe guns don't make sense next to the bread and milk, but fortunately they don't usually display them there. They display the guns and ammo with the camping equipment, survival equipment, fishing equipment, archery equipment, baseball equipment... you get the idea.

This post has been edited by h4nnib4l: 14 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

[Bort]

Not TV H4nnib4l, just knowledge of what people are like when they are young, stupid, and out for a party/good time. Other than a few specific shows, I don't watch TV.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not talking about everyone here. Obviously, a lot of people, hopefully most, will be more sensible than to do this, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

In response to your edit edit, H4nnib4l, now Walmart stocking guns makes sense. If they are with the hunting/camping gear, then yes, that does makes sense. nothing I have ever read about guns, ammo, and Walmart have actually mentioned that bit though. Over here, a general store like Walmart will be mostly food, with maybe a clothing aisle, a DVD/music aisle, and an electronic goods aisle. If we want campiong goods, we need to go to a camping shop.

This post has been edited by Bort: 14 April 2014 - 07:04 AM

[depricated]

Bort, on 14 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Ah, yes. That is called entrapment, and is illegal in this country. I always forget the police can get away with such things in the US.

Eh, entrapment isn't illegal in any country that I'm aware of. There are cases in the UK, Canada, and Australia where entrapment is used. What is illegal is coerced entrapment. Simply presenting the opportunity for someone to commit a crime and monitoring is not illegal - it's illegal to coerce someone into committing the crime. IANAL, so I'm sure there are more subtleties that I'm missing, but that's the basic breakdown.

Bort, on 14 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Diapers and Budweiser. Tell me, is that Bud sold in a diaper store? Or do regular stores just happen to sell both of them? If the former, then yeah, it's the same kind of thing to what I am saying about gas stations and alcohol (maybe not encouraging underage drinking, but certainly encouraging irresponsible parenting). If not, if it is just a general store, it's a straw man argument.

Driving to places to buy beer isn't an issue. Most off licenses over here have signs up reminding people of the penalties if they drink and drive. Do your gas stations do that? The issue is going to buy gas, and being able to stand at the counter and when the cashier asks 'Is there anything else?' being able to say 'Well, I do fancy a drink, pass me a case of Bud.' and cracking one open on the way back to the car. Encouraging irresponsibility.

And putting aside the petrol and beer for a moment. Frankly, I think having a grocery store that sells guns and ammo is just silly. Yeah, ok, guns are legal in the US, let's keep that an argument for elsewhere, so there is no reason not to stock them, but at the same time, is it really necessary to have guns on display every time you stop at Walmart to pick up bread and milk?

Perhaps this is just a cultural lack of knowledge on both our parts. So let me ask this: in your country (UK?) are gas stations simply a lot with pumps and a small stand to pay with no other merchandise?

In the US, that's rarely the case. I know of 3 in my entire city that are like that. Here, gas stations almost always have an attached "convenience store" - a store to conveniently buy general merchandise items that you may have forgotten while at the grocer, or simply don't feel like going all the way into the supermarket and waiting in line for 20 minutes to check out with 1 or 2 items. They sell chips, snacks, but also toiletries (toothbrush, razor, cream, tp), OTC medicine (tylenol, ibuprofin, antacids, etc), common driving accessories like sun glasses, maps, motor oil and funnels, gloves and ice scrapers. They sell instant meals like Cup Noodle, lunchables, campbells soup cups, etc. And cigarettes, and beer, and wine. Some carry meat, cheese, and milk even.

They don't encourage people to drink and drive any more than they encourage people to have sex with gas cans by putting them in the same aisle as condoms. Limited shop space means that disparate items will be near eachother.

Moreover, the cashier is obliged to not sell alcohol to anyone underage or already intoxicated, and they are obliged to call the police if someone intoxicated is driving, or someone were to use your scenario of walking out of the shop and cracking open a beer. Around here, that will get you arrested. But the better question is how, exactly, is that different from someone walking out of a liquor store and cracking open a beer as they walk to their car? Your case can be applied in any scenario in which someone drives to buy alcohol. The only way to prevent your scenario is to offer delivery service - which isn't cheap. Costs me $30 a month for my monthly wine delivery. Not bad though.

edit: also, there are often plenty of don't drink and drive signs posted around. If you'd like I can take pictures of a store when I get off work so you can see the kind of setup.


edit edit: when I get paid Friday I'll blow your mind and go through the Drive-Thru next to my house to buy some beer and cigarettes without even leaving my car.

This post has been edited by depricated: 14 April 2014 - 08:25 AM

[h4nnib4l]

@Bort - are you talking about the 18-20 demographic in particular? Because they'd be hard-pressed to walk out of a convenience store with beer over here.

And yeah, the WalMart super centers would be one of the best places to go if a zombie apocalypse happened. Full-service auto centers, clothes, hardware, electronics, home furnishings, besides the food.