[stayscrisp]

I think bottom line he is a salesman really, and that is seeping through. "Brand Manager" or something of that ilk seems to be his title...so, salesman.

I have to agree with you though that his approach does seem quite high and mighty.

Would anyone agree that there is a certain amount of luck involved at getting hired at google? Not to play down the guys accomplishments.

[depricated]

Luck is the product of superstition. It's a confirmation bias (as is misfortune) of when opportunity meets preparedness.

Be prepared and create your opportunity. You can get into Google. It just takes a lot of preparation and a bit of work at creating the opportunity.

Also, I didn't notice that he literally is a salesman. So maybe that's why his mode of speech reads like he's selling something - maybe he doesn't know how to talk about his ideas without trying to sell them. That just went from dispicable to pathetic and sad.

[jon.kiparsky]

stayscrisp, on 10 October 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Would anyone agree that there is a certain amount of luck involved at getting hired at google? Not to play down the guys accomplishments.

Of course. Some of that is what you might call "deep luck" - someone might be lucky in their choice of parents, or in their choice of neighborhood schools, or in their choice of inspiring teachers, or in their choice of genetics, or in their choice of freak happenstance that attracts their attention to the right subject at the right time and bends the arc of their life to intersect at google.
There might be some "right place, right time" luck - his resume happened to be the one the hiring manager looked at, he happened to get the email and respond to it, he happened to get the interview slot right after lunch and the interviewers were in their happy place, whatever.

But I think google does a fair bit of work to minimize the latter sort of luck for important hires. You're probably not getting a resume picked out of a pile, you're getting multiple interviews, they make the interviewers wear scratchy underthings so they're never happy, and so forth. So the hiring decisions are probably mostly based on evaluation metrics set by google.

(by luck, of course, I'm just meaning "that set of factors that the person involved can't control" - not any sort of force in the universe that acts with agency)

depricated, on 10 October 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think it absolutely is. Words have consequences. While I don't believe in censorship - and someone please restrain Jon when I say this - people should absolutely be held accountable for the consequences of what they say.
[/quote]

I don't see how you could hold people to account for telling the world what they've decided to do in their own lives.

I agree that if someone presents bogus evidence to support some diet or treatment which is harmful to the people who use it, they should be held accountable in some fashion - either criminally or otherwise, depending on the circumstances. But if you blog about how much you enjoyed your Saturday afternoon playing in traffic, surely anyone reading you is responsible for evaluating the wisdom of emulating your example.

[modi123_1]

depricated, on 10 October 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

modi123_1, on 10 October 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I hardly thing it is okay to yoke some other guy's failure of self employment on this cat's shoulders.

I think it absolutely is. Words have consequences. While I don't believe in censorship - and someone please restrain Jon when I say this - people should absolutely be held accountable for the consequences of what they say. Like I said, I'm happy for him finding something he's excited about. Good for him in sharing it. But his manner is all wrong, his approach is that of a salesman trying to convince you that he tooks the high road - which implies that you should too. I illustrate this with what you reacted to below so I'll skip to that.

Again, I call BS. Certainly words have actions in specific context (yelling fire in a movie theater and someone getting trampled, or overwhelming online harassment of women in the tech/gaming industry until the point of collapse from fear, death threats, and psychological abuse), but that is not what is going on here. This is all about fighting complacency. He's not yelling "fuck your job, fuck your couch" and demanding you all quit. No, not at all. Why is it his deal if Kent Schmoe decides to quit his job and work self employed? Why? What concrete reason is he accountable for some dinkus' inability to make it as a self employed worker when all Peggs is advocating to not be complacent in life?

To think this is some sort of call to quit your job is silly; I must have been given the wrong handout from that video, because that is not what I am getting and I will certainly fail the quiz. This is nothing more than a "rah-rah hook your wagon to a star, reach for your dreams" self empowerment post.

Assuming this nonexistent burden is even remotely plausible - Peggs literally lists off the downsides:

Michael Peggs said:

Here’s what it takes to quit your high paying job in pursuit of your dreams in a city as expensive as New York: ditching dinner with friends, lots of cheap beer, saving more than you spend, building a business on the side, five hours of sleep a night, no vacations, missing family functions, skipping weekend weddings, moving from Manhattan – and dating? No time, and couldn’t afford it anyways.

In the end - at worst all he is clamoring about is don't just go with the flow, and to get out of a rut. If you want to change something then start the action.

Michael Peggs said:

The reason why is simple: you are the CEO of your life. The decisions you make today will set the course of things to come. Do something today that will pay dividends down the road. I read once that you should do one thing every day that scares you. I can’t remember the last time I pushed past my limits.

What I know now is that you’ll never reach your potential until you assume some level of risk.

It doesn’t have to be your job, but leave something behind starting today. Stop settling for what’s good enough and make room for what’s great.

In time, what will you give up?

You are misreading this or applying some hidden personal beef colored film on the issue about folks going into self employement.

[NeoTifa]

modi123_1, on 10 October 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

It's not like he is selling schmuck instruments to some small town in Iowa and planning to skip town.

I thought it was Indiana...

[depricated]

jon.kiparsky, on 10 October 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

I don't see how you could hold people to account for telling the world what they've decided to do in their own lives.

I agree that if someone presents bogus evidence to support some diet or treatment which is harmful to the people who use it, they should be held accountable in some fashion - either criminally or otherwise, depending on the circumstances. But if you blog about how much you enjoyed your Saturday afternoon playing in traffic, surely anyone reading you is responsible for evaluating the wisdom of emulating your example.

I'm talking about moral culpability, not financial or legal. Just like Ayn Rand is guilty of creating the Randbots and Leonard Peikoff of making them frothing jingos. Just like Adam Smith was condemned by Nicolaas Pierson for paving the way for Karl Marx's communism (though imo Smith was innocent because his fault was in oversight of implication rather than extollation of virtue - that's beside the point).

The ideas he intentionally plants (not unintentionally) he is responsible for. He's intentionally telling people that this is good for them and not just for him.

This post has been edited by depricated: 10 October 2014 - 11:23 AM

[modi123_1]

@neo: Naw - hommie Harry is purportedly from Gary, Indiana (*queue song*). He bamboozled Iowans.

Er.. should I say "bamboozled the peasants in Iowa". Oooooh! Look at me using new slang!

Spoiler

[jon.kiparsky]

depricated, on 10 October 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

The ideas he intentionally plants (not unintentionally) he is responsible for. He's intentionally telling people that this is good for them and not just for him.

I guess I also think this is bullshit, but I'm not all that worked up about arguing the point.

[NeoTifa]

Ah okay, it's been like 10 years since I've seen it. The closest I get nowadays is the episode of Family Guy where Peter joins the NE Patriots and showboats with the Shipoopi song.

[depricated]

modi123_1, on 10 October 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Again, I call BS. Certainly words have actions in specific context (yelling fire in a movie theater and someone getting trampled, or overwhelming online harassment of women in the tech/gaming industry until the point of collapse from fear, death threats, and psychological abuse), but that is not what is going on here. This is all about fighting complacency. He's not yelling "fuck your job, fuck your couch" and demanding you all quit. No, not at all. Why is it his deal if Kent Schmoe decides to quit his job and work self employed? Why? What concrete reason is he accountable for some dinkus' inability to make it as a self employed worker when all Peggs is advocating to not be complacent in life?

But it is. The prejudicial language against not doing like him is all over the place.

Michael Peggs said:

The challenge...is complacency. You sacrifice tomorrow's potential for today's pleasure.

He may have, but not everyone working at firms like Google and Amazon are living in the present. I gurantee you, and I know this from just reading up in prep for my interview with them, that Amazon is looking to the future and sacrificing "today's pleasure" to achieve "tomorrow's potential." I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that Google has people who are planning 10 and 50 years ahead.

Michael Peggs said:

I'm too comfortable...and life is too convenient

As though this is a problem. What he means is that he's grown complacent, but what he's actually saying is that comfort and convenience are bad.

Michael Peggs said:

We're too young to settle.

Because being comfortable and convenienced and achieving your goals is settling. You should be like him, HE clearly knows what's right, since he knows you're just settling.

Michael Peggs said:

Be honest. Do you love what you do? Probably not...anyone that says they enjoy the long hours and indentured servitude...is lying to you.

Be honest! Be honest! That was actually what set off my bullshit meter. Before that I was unimpressed by his flippancy, but as soon as I read "Be honest." I thought, "well, what's he selling?" No one mentions truth or honesty unless they're selling something - that's why I said, his dialectic is only used to convince people to join a religion or buy into a confidence scam. Convince people that they don't know what's best for themselves, and that you have the answers. Are you happy with your 9-5 job and the long hours you put in as an indentured servant? Clearly you're lying to yourself!

Michael Peggs said:

...we lie to ourselves every day.

BECAUSE WE LIE TO OURSELVES EVERY DAY!

You're unhappy! You're unhappy because you think you're happy with your 9-5! You're unhappy because you're comfortable and enjoy convenience! If you think you're not YOU'RE LYING TO YOURSELF!

Michael Peggs said:

The secret? Self-control.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE SELF CONTROL!

lol...seriously, that's what this paragraph just boiled down to. Self Control is, apparently, the difference between Want and Need. I guess I'll just Self Control myself out of eating food.

Quote

To think this is some sort of call to quit your job is silly; I must have been given the wrong handout from that video, because that is not what I am getting and I will certainly fail the quiz. This is nothing more than a "rah-rah hook your wagon to a star, reach for your dreams" self empowerment post.

It's that he's trying to sell you on his opinion, not calling people to quit their jobs. He's trying to convince you that his way is better, when in fact all it is is better for him. By speaking in generalities like "all investment bankers" or "we all lie to ourselves" he has shifted from exploring his opinion, to selling it. [/quote]

Quote

It doesn’t have to be your job, but leave something behind starting today. Stop settling for what’s good enough and make room for what’s great.

In time, what will you give up?

No, but it's certainly a rally to abandon something and give up on things, and accusations that you're merely settling for life.

Quote

Assuming this nonexistent burden is even remotely plausible - Peggs literally lists off the downsides:
...
In the end - at worst all he is clamoring about is don't just go with the flow, and to get out of a rut. If you want to change something then start the action.

Yes, of course change must be affected in order to affect change, and the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club. The fact that he feels people need this explained to them is evidence of the sales pitch. It doesn't need to be explained, because people know it. But it's brought up when you want to sell someone on something so you need to remind them of a basic fact.

Michael Peggs said:

The reason why is simple: you are the CEO of your life. The decisions you make today will set the course of things to come. Do something today that will pay dividends down the road. I read once that you should do one thing every day that scares you. I can’t remember the last time I pushed past my limits.

What I know now is that you’ll never reach your potential until you assume some level of risk.

And risk doesn't have to be scary. In fact, if it's SCARY you probably shouldn't do it. Sure step out of your comfort zone, but I didn't get on stage the first time thinking about how scary it was to play in front of a crowd. I was nervous, but I was exhilarated and beside myself to be playing for people. It wasn't scary in the least - my only fear was in messing up in front of people and being embarassed - and that could happen just walking down the street.

Quote

You are misreading this or applying some hidden personal beef colored film on the issue about folks going into self employement.

I don't think I am. My "hidden personal beef" is a hatred for proselytizing idealogues / con artists.

Now, I'm willing to cede that this guy is clearly a salesman professionally (on first read I thought he was a programmer, I didn't notice his job title), so perhaps he's incapable of communicating like a normal person. And if that's the case, I don't hate him or his article, I just feel sorry for him for being linguistically crippled.

[modi123_1]

Wow.. someone is really, really hating on the this cat's motivational post. Did you pee on those classroom motivational posters with kittens on ropes and such?



Of course he is offering his opinion, it is his freaking blog post on his experiences for Pete's sake.

What way is he trying to convince you is better? That you can get out of a rut? That you don't have to blithely accept your current circumstances? That if you think you want more you can do that, but it may require some sacrifices?

Your reaction seems over blown, and is moving into mildly comical. Take a step back and see it for the personal empowerment fluff on any given job site or board. If this continues I may have to call in Dr. Neo and have her ask where the bad motivational speaker touched you. Sheesh!

[TheMightyUch]

Uch's thread POV
Unusually long post = keep scrolling and read the next one

[modi123_1]

Was there a translation error?

[TheMightyUch]

I was talking about Dep's multiple quotes and replies

[depricated]

modi123_1, on 10 October 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Wow.. someone is really, really hating on the this cat's motivational post. Did you pee on those classroom motivational posters with kittens on ropes and such?



Of course he is offering his opinion, it is his freaking blog post on his experiences for Pete's sake.

What way is he trying to convince you is better? That you can get out of a rut? That you don't have to blithely accept your current circumstances? That if you think you want more you can do that, but it may require some sacrifices?

Your reaction seems over blown, and is moving into mildly comical. Take a step back and see it for the personal empowerment fluff on any given job site or board. If this continues I may have to call in Dr. Neo and have her ask where the bad motivational speaker touched you. Sheesh!

As I said, it doesn't read like a motivational speaker. It did, up til he started using sales tactics. Witht those it reads like a confidence scam.

And there will be PLENTY of time for confidence scams from motivational speakers when you're living in a van down by the river!

TheMightyUch, on 10 October 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

I was talking about Dep's multiple quotes and replies

I'm just bored while I check in and build 15 different fixes at once...lots of time to kill Visual Studios is tied up