[1lacca]

First of all, I think I'm typically not the kind of guy who would give out a complete solution, especially because I am too lazy for that, but I hope I can qive a really hard push into the right direction.
However I think that in some cases people can learn from the solution. It's like if you are an engineer, you don't have to invent all the things, but once they are shown to you, you can use them - think of design patterns, or function libraries, or some math formulas, that you don't have to understand in order to use it (ok, stone me, this last one was actually quite against what I usually preach, but I hope it gets my point through to some). I remember my first C++ exam, when I've felt completely lost. The last night I thought that I could not produce 2 lines of code that would compile, but a guy posted some complete solutions of problems from previous years, and it just somehow gave me the kick, and I've got the best grade - just to clarify it: the problems that year were completely different.
Anyway, I think it can be seen from the first 2 posts if the op hasn't seen a working code yet, so his hands must be held for the first couple of tests, or the push into the right direction thing works - or he is just the demanding monkey that only came here to learn some manners.

[aceofspades686]

supersloth, on 24 Oct, 2007 - 01:39 PM, said:

i was really expecting chris to talk about the member of our team at work (non-dic work) who still can't figure out for loops or if statements a year and a half after being hired. suddenly i am disappointed.

Sounds like my group of first years that I tutor... but they have an excuse.

[skyhawk133]

Yeh, this guy doesn't have an excuse. He's actually one of the older (late 20's) guys on the team, and just flat out refuses to learn. The problem is, it's his job to run our servers, but he can't install IIS, and it's his job to manage the homepage, but he can't figure out a simple <img src...> tag and it's his job to deploy our web applications, but he doesn't understand includes, or dependencies.

[aceofspades686]

Tell him to suck it up and find a new hobby... maybe knitting would be more up his alley.

[fooboo]

Kick him hard in the balls...it's the only way he'll learn.

[no2pencil]

fooboo, on 25 Oct, 2007 - 10:21 AM, said:

Kick him hard in the balls...it's the only way he'll learn.

I 2nd this approach. What always irks me is that you hear about a place with some guy running, or in charge of something, & he has not a clue of what he is doing. Yet, you (or like 5 friends you know) have the hardest time getting even a starting position that they are over-qualified for.

[1lacca]

I knew a guy, who was a sysadmin abroad. He knew a lot more than his manager about running networks and managing servers, but he was not trusted, because he was a foreigner (I don't want to name nations, because it is probably not a general thing). So he had to sneak in with his collegues into the server room at night to fix things, so that they don't have to suck all day from the users - and from their boss who would not listen to them, but who was angry because he could not fix those things himself (I think this situation is even worse, because you are not respected, and your efforts are credited to someone else).

[WolfCoder]

1lacca, on 25 Oct, 2007 - 12:26 PM, said:

I knew a guy, who was a sysadmin abroad. He knew a lot more than his manager about running networks and managing servers, but he was not trusted, because he was a foreigner (I don't want to name nations, because it is probably not a general thing). So he had to sneak in with his collegues into the server room at night to fix things, so that they don't have to suck all day from the users - and from their boss who would not listen to them, but who was angry because he could not fix those things himself (I think this situation is even worse, because you are not respected, and your efforts are credited to someone else).

I hope that guy found a better job.

[Chubber]

We have shortages of a lot of things in this country, but intellectual curiousity is one of the biggest.

[aceofspades686]

Chubber, on 31 Oct, 2007 - 03:21 PM, said:

We have shortages of a lot of things in this country, but intellectual curiousity is one of the biggest.

QFT, that's one thing I never understood is how people can want to do something but not want to learn how to do it.

[skyhawk133]

Generally speaking, 50% of Americans feel that way. That they deserve the American Dream, without actually doing anything.

Political rant in 3.... 2.... 1

Those people... are called democrats.

[snoj]

Though look at Hitler, he wanted to do something and he learned how to do it!

[PeterShogren]

Programmist, on 24 Oct, 2007 - 03:37 AM, said:

The reason? After a year he still was still a "junior developer."

I kept reading along and I couldn't help but keep thinking: "Jesus! They're talking about me!"

I felt at least a little obligated to say something...maybe shed some light on this...I dunno.

Coding is clean, quiet work and (after struggling through a BS in programming) I finally found a job as a junior developer. That was a little over a year ago. At the time, part of the reason I "aced" the interview was I said-- and believed-- that I would learn more programming skills "on my own time". At first it was new, it was fun, it was even exciting...and then I started to slack off....and in the end I realized that I just don't have the patience to read books on programming *outside of work*. This is not unlike my attempt to learn to play the guitar. I even had the callouses. But in the end...practicing every day became more work than pleasure. Eventually I gave the guitar to someone that would play it

Let me put it another way.... What separates guys like me and "real" programmers is that we both want to be programmers. But for us it's just a job....REAL programmers will write code whether they can get paid to do it or not.

Solution: Don't give the code to guys like me...just a hint should be enough. If being "pointed in the right direction" isn't good enough, then the guy/gal asking for help didn't deserve the answer anyway

Peter

[PsychoCoder]

skyhawk133, on 31 Oct, 2007 - 02:54 PM, said:

Generally speaking, 50% of Americans feel that way. That they deserve the American Dream, without actually doing anything.

Political rant in 3.... 2.... 1

Those people... are called democrats.

Ooooooooooooooooooh, thems fighting words! I'm a staunch Democrat, always have been, always will be, and I don't expect handouts from anyone, I have worked my ass off to get to where Im at today.

I don't think Ive seen a more generalized statement in my life, that would be like me comparing all Republicans to Bush, I don't think Id have a good outlook on Republicans then, not that I do now anyways

[Amadeus]

PsychoCoder, on 1 Nov, 2007 - 05:17 AM, said:

I don't think Ive seen a more generalized statement in my life,

I'm guessing you haven't seen our regular M$ vs anything but M$ threads, eh? They're chock full of generalized statements.

That was pretty generalized though...I'd never do that. But then again, I'd expect nothing less from any American.