is wpf dying?

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#1 Damage   User is offline

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is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:31 PM

A colleague and i were having this discussion and i'm interested to hear what you think. With the advent of self hosted websites and webapi and wcf, is wpf and the fat client on it's way out? i don't mean tomorrow or even next year but ultimately is the necessity for desktop development becoming irrelevant?
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#2 madprogrammer24   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 05:24 PM

I don't see desktop development ever going away, simply because desktop apps will always have a place. Now with the advent of Windows 10 and that OS coming to the raspberry pi, this makes desktop development even more important. The examples you mentioned all require a server, well a server needs a UI, no reason that couldn't be done in WPF. I have only been in the development industry a couple years, so I could be wrong on some of my remarks.
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#3 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 05:31 PM

I do not think desktop development is going away. There's only so much juice you can squeeze from mobile and web dev. At best virtualized desktops may make a surge but they won't go away completely.
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#4 tlhIn`toq   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:05 PM



FYI: I found those by using the Search feature in the DIC masthead with the terms "WPF dying" and "WPF Dead". Other similar terms might find you more.

This post has been edited by tlhIn`toq: 24 March 2015 - 07:06 PM

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#5 Damage   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:48 PM

ahh gotcha, should have looked first. Thanks
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#6 Skydiver   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:02 PM

Moving the Cubicle Corner...
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#7 tlhIn`toq   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:18 PM

View PostDamage, on 24 March 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

ahh gotcha, should have looked first. Thanks


Not saying you shouldn't have made a new thread. Up-to-date talks have up-to-date information an opinions.
Those threads are from early 2012 and early 2014. So 1 and 3 years old.
I was just pointing you at some other thoughts... Some may still be relevant, some may not.

But as others have said here and in those threads: Desktop applications aren't going away any time soon for lots of reasons.

My personal hit-list:
  • I don't want my every keystroke on some server or over the net. Local work belongs on a local machine.
  • Not every machine has internet access. My house doesn't have 'net access at times. Do I want to no longer be able to write code because I can't reach the on-line Visual Studio app? Do I really need to not be able to write a ToDo list because I'm on an airplane and can't get to the on-line NotePad?
  • If they are self-hosted... Do we really need that added complexity to our desktops? I don't want to host a web server to host VMware to provide a virtual machine to debug into, and have that web server also serve out an on-line/self-hosted Visual Studio... Damn, its hard enough to get stuff to work on Windows as it is without MORE layers.
  • Hardware interaction will never be fast enough from a browser app. When I tell a camera to 'shoot now', I mean *now* not 10 milliseconds from now. When I get responses back from a LIDAR unit I need them *now*, not with an indeterminate amount of async delay.
  • If you think its tough writing for one OS, trying writing with compatibility for multiple browsers on multiple OSes. Safari on the mac lets you see the microphone, but not Safari Windows until after version x.y.z... blah blah blah
  • Again, I don't need my every keystroke and checkbook program operation going out over the 'net to be hacked.
  • I don't want to be limited to the lowest common denominator of GUI technology. If someone creates a better/faster/cooler GUI tech but it isn't on every browser then I can't use it.
  • How about this one: Do you want to be on the operating table undergoing robot-assisted surgery with a robot that isn't controlled by a local piece of software? You're fine getting a brain tumor removed by a web-app, right?

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#8 pharylon   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:35 AM

Is WPF dying? Yes and no.

No, because Microsoft is still developing it. There will always be a need for desktop only apps, and WPF is Microsoft's solution for that.

But really the answer is yes, because pure Desktop is becoming increasingly niche. At most businesses, most internal tools are written for the browser. For most hobbyist/tinkerers, they want to design stuff that can be used on phones or tablets as well as desktops. Hell, I'll design a self-hosted website that runs purely locally before I design something in WPF. Not only does it draw on my web skills, but it's much more portable. It can run on Mac or Linux - WPF can't do that. And just look at the buzz. Reading Scott Hanselman's blog, I'd never know WPF existed.

So I don't think WPF is necessarily dying, but that Desktop development is becoming rarer.
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#9 tlhIn`toq   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:26 AM

Really? "Most businesses", "Most internal tools". Where's that statistic coming from?

I think its more fair to say that web app use is on the rise, but that doesn't mean desktop apps are on the decline. Just because more is being done on the left doesn't mean its being taken way from the right. For example: Insurance claims used to be filled out in paper on site then the claims adjuster entered everything in the system back at the office desktop. Now the office desktop still does that, but thanks to a web app the adjuster can also enter the paperwork live from the incident.

Another example would be real-time feedback. It used to be if you were having a contractor doing work on your house you'd have to go by the job site to see the progress. Now a contractor can take photos with a smart phone and update a tracking app. So that's more web app use but it didn't take away from anything: It's a new capability.

Its in these new real-time, instant gratification areas that I observe the most growth/demand. The ability to give more and faster feedback to the customer.

Quote

It can run on Mac or Linux - WPF can't do that.

Eh... That's rapidly changing. There are multiple projects porting .NET to other platforms (mono being the most known). Now that Microsoft made .NET open source with the specific intent being to port to Mac and Linux it won't be too long.
http://www.zdnet.com...linux-mac-os-x/

Also the latest two versions of Visual Studio (2013, 2015) keep increasing cross-platform compatibility and single code-base interaction. The ability to write one base of code to run on my desktop, table, Windows Phone, iPhone or web app exists now (albeit in early stages). The cost of code development drives development technologies as much as anything else. When a developer can write one code base and deploy it anyplace that technology is going to win.

Will WPF die? Absolutely. Every technology does and we keep telling rookies that want to know "which language should I learn" that they have to accept its a moving target for the rest of their lives. WPF will get replaced with something better. Then a decade later that will get replaced. Etc. etc.

Right now ask yourself: What is there replacing WPF? Nothing. There are *other* technologies for other realms of development, but they are lateral to WPF not its successor. Currently there is nothing in the pipeline for replacing WPF. What does that tell you?

This post has been edited by tlhIn`toq: 26 March 2015 - 10:28 AM

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#10 BeenThereAlso   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:12 PM

This may be a bit off topic. Maybe it should be moved to a new one. But reading the comments here indicates that Desktop is not going away altogether. Neither is Browser based or Android/Apple native or webview. So this leaves the developer community faced with terrible fragmentation of the App market (or job market if you just want to code). Where to for developers from here? Specialize in one branch with reduced conditions from a reduced market or try to be a Jack of all trades?
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#11 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:26 PM

There are tools to deal with that.. Example - Xamarin is doing wonders. Write once-ish.. compile and send out.

Fragmentation wise it's not *that* big of a deal.. before it was desktop and web.. so you chuck in mobile. *shrug* Seems okay.

Make friends.. get help..
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#12 tlhIn`toq   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:23 PM

View PostBeenThereAlso, on 26 March 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

So this leaves the developer community faced with terrible fragmentation of the App market (or job market if you just want to code). Where to for developers from here?



Nothing new about that. That's been the case for the software development industry since there has been a software development industry. Where you want to work is something we have to beat into students' heads here very week.

Do you want to write for:
  • Embedded machines
  • Phone games
  • Console games
  • Desktop games
  • Insurance company or some other 'big data' field
  • TV broadcast stations
  • Video editing
  • Robots (auto manufacturing robots for example)
  • Medical imaging
  • Main frames
  • Automotive computers
  • Website eCommerce
  • Website gambling
  • [...]


People talk about being a programmer like its all the same when in fact it is SO far from it.
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#13 Damage   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:53 PM

little bit of necro-posting but came across a similar thread on slashdot
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#14 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:55 PM

I liked the response:

Quote

No: The fact that this question gets asked basically every year should more than sufficiently answer the question.

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#15 BeenThereAlso   User is offline

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Re: is wpf dying?

Posted 11 May 2015 - 01:31 PM

View PostDamage, on 11 May 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

little bit of necro-posting but came across a similar thread on slashdot


Read that. Some interesting comments.
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