[ge∅]

Maybe, but he is right about one thing : it's the beauty of the web. Anybody can create a site. You don't need to be a professional. CSS, HTML, PHP are very simple to use (at least the most basic features), and it is by design.

[jon.kiparsky]

ge∅, on 24 April 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Maybe, but he is right about one thing : it's the beauty of the web. Anybody can create a site. You don't need to be a professional. CSS, HTML, PHP are very simple to use (at least the most basic features), and it is by design.

I'm guessing you haven't worked on sites that are actually used by very many people, or that handle significant quantities of data, correct?

[JeremyBenson11]

[quote name='ArtificialSoldier' date='24 April 2015 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1429910890' post='2146857']

Quote

To me, it doesn't matter if my website runs like a Lamborghini... all that matters is that it looks like one.
So you basically make the website equivalent of this.

Quote

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want

I think you might be the reason why people have a poor view of PHP programmers in general.

Why not? You don't need to be a genius to get something done in the web, and when you have problems people usually help you through them. I don't think someone making their own business needs to be program optimal, as if bill gates himself scripted it... poorly programmed websites can work great, and with the right HTML and style, can be easily sold to a crowd. There's not many other IT fields you can do that in... It's great for people like me, who aren't inherently smart.

The second part was a bit rude. I've liked coding for years without being good at it... I'm not a "php programmer" I'm just someone who likes php... If people look down on php programmers it's probably because of the limits of the code and simplicity of it... the hardest thing a php coder will make is a pagination script, lol.

This post has been edited by JeremyBenson11: 25 April 2015 - 05:36 PM

[astonecipher]

JeremyBenson11, on 25 April 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

the hardest thing a php coder will make is a pagination script, lol.

This is far from true. The hardest thing you can code, is the hardest thing you can dream up, regardless of the language used.

[jon.kiparsky]

JeremyBenson11, on 25 April 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

The second part was a bit rude. I've liked coding for years without being good at it... I'm not a "php programmer" I'm just someone who likes php... If people look down on php programmers it's probably because of the limits of the code and simplicity of it...

Or maybe it's because they say things like

Quote

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want

[kathy025]

JeremyBenson11, on 25 April 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Web programming is easy, and php makes— say— direct-x look like rocket science, which game programming pretty much is... in terms of difficulty...

To me, it doesn't matter if my website runs like a Lamborghini... all that matters is that it looks like one. Thus, the bonus of being a web programmer... it's all about appeal and service... your appeal and service could be worth millions, while you programming is only worth $1.50. You can't do that with game programming.

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want, as long as it works... and still make a million if people love your site...

That's the beauty of the web

This makes it sound like you're a scammer more than a developer. Bad ethics is bad.

[ben255]

when i started prioritizing coding over masturbation

[JeremyBenson11]

kathy025, on 26 April 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

JeremyBenson11, on 25 April 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Web programming is easy, and php makes— say— direct-x look like rocket science, which game programming pretty much is... in terms of difficulty...

To me, it doesn't matter if my website runs like a Lamborghini... all that matters is that it looks like one. Thus, the bonus of being a web programmer... it's all about appeal and service... your appeal and service could be worth millions, while you programming is only worth $1.50. You can't do that with game programming.

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want, as long as it works... and still make a million if people love your site...

That's the beauty of the web />/>/>/>/>/>/>

This makes it sound like you're a scammer more than a developer. Bad ethics is bad. />/>/>/>/>/>/>

There's no scam involved. Who's scamming anyone? I'm not talking about a fraud site, I'm talking about an everyday site. What I said was as long as the site LOOKS good, has good HTML and CSS... it doesn't matter if the code underneath running it is sloppy. When you're a bad coder, that's all you can write, and still make a popular site.... because the general public only sees what it looks like. Thus with the help of a layout artist you could make the next facebook, even if the code is garbage... which I think is great, because people like me, who aren't overly smart, can still reach their dreams of making a good site with a little help...

This means the average joe with a little intuition can hold onto what is left of their IT dreams...

I don't know who would be little and talk down to someone who tells that to people...

My message is: Don't worry if you can't code perfect on the web, you cans still succeed...

and there's people here that would act like dogs.

Dream in Code, as helpful as you've been, you can't hold a candle to digital point... at least the people there aren't overly rude.

Still, I'll stay, but learn how to treat people, lol.

Edit - had to edit to say last feedback comment isn't a suggestion for those who have helped me. There are members excluded from that suggestion, and personal feeling, sorry for getting so hot headed, I know there's better friends here, just some people have no regard for someone's hobby, or enjoyment... Not sure where they got the idea that unless you code like gates you should be treated like garbage... Wonder if they drink tea with their pinky up />

This post has been edited by JeremyBenson11: 26 April 2015 - 07:45 AM

[no2pencil]

ben255, on 26 April 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

when i started prioritizing coding over masturbation

Some of my best code has been typed with one hand. Why choose?

[depricated]

ben255, on 26 April 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

when i started prioritizing coding over masturbation

When masturbation's lost its fun you're fuckin lonely

no2pencil, on 26 April 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

ben255, on 26 April 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

when i started prioritizing coding over masturbation

Some of my best code has been typed with one hand. Why choose?

So you were the dev behind StickyKeys

edited to fix double post

This post has been edited by depricated: 26 April 2015 - 07:29 AM

[depricated]

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

There's no scam involved. Who's scamming anyone? I'm not talking about a fraud site, I'm talking about an everyday site. What I said was as long as the site LOOKS good, has good HTML and CSS... it doesn't matter if the code underneath running it is sloppy. When you're a bad coder, that's all you can write, and still make a popular site.... because the general public only sees what it looks like. Thus with the help of a layout artist you could make the next facebook, even if the code is garbage... which I think is great, because people like me, who aren't overly smart, can still reach their dreams of making a good site with a little help...

Except there's a lot you can identify about the code from the front end. For instance, if I use † in a password, I can learn a number of things about the way the site is written based on whether it's accepted or not. Either it is, in which case the security is either really bad (not filtering at all) or is written with at least some thought to security. Either way, in assessing the vulnerability of a site, that's a pretty useful tool.

Sure the general public is your target audience, and they won't recognize the implications of a hidden field called hfPrice - but anyone snooping for a way to screw with your site will.

Quote

This means the average joe with a little intuition can hold onto what is left of their IT dreams...

IT is easy, and if someone wants to work in IT and has some knowledge of programming, they can make amazing system or network admins. If they want to work as a coder, though, they should grow some ambition and learn to do it properly. It may sound shitty to say, but the average Joe isn't really fit to be a programmer. The average Joe is wondering why his new laptop doesn't have a cupholder like his old one did.

Quote

I don't know who would be little and talk down to someone who tells that to people...

My message is: Don't worry if you can't code perfect on the web, you cans still succeed...

I read something completely different. What I read was

Quote

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want, as long as it works... and still make a million if people love your site..

There's a huge difference between "you don't have to be perfect" and "just buy someone else's design and prop it up on shitty code."

You keep saying you're not smart. I have no frame of reference for your intelligence, so what I'll say is this: you can make up for that by studying. The response you're getting is because of the good-enough-for-government-work attitude. Like you can write crappy code so why push for more.

Quote

and there's people here that would act like dogs.

Dream in Code, as helpful as you've been, you can't hold a candle to digital point... at least the people there aren't overly rude.

Still, I'll stay, but learn how to treat people, lol.

Welcome to the lounge.

[JeremyBenson11]

depricated, on 26 April 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

There's no scam involved. Who's scamming anyone? I'm not talking about a fraud site, I'm talking about an everyday site. What I said was as long as the site LOOKS good, has good HTML and CSS... it doesn't matter if the code underneath running it is sloppy. When you're a bad coder, that's all you can write, and still make a popular site.... because the general public only sees what it looks like. Thus with the help of a layout artist you could make the next facebook, even if the code is garbage... which I think is great, because people like me, who aren't overly smart, can still reach their dreams of making a good site with a little help...

Except there's a lot you can identify about the code from the front end. For instance, if I use † in a password, I can learn a number of things about the way the site is written based on whether it's accepted or not. Either it is, in which case the security is either really bad (not filtering at all) or is written with at least some thought to security. Either way, in assessing the vulnerability of a site, that's a pretty useful tool.

Sure the general public is your target audience, and they won't recognize the implications of a hidden field called hfPrice - but anyone snooping for a way to screw with your site will.

Quote

This means the average joe with a little intuition can hold onto what is left of their IT dreams...

IT is easy, and if someone wants to work in IT and has some knowledge of programming, they can make amazing system or network admins. If they want to work as a coder, though, they should grow some ambition and learn to do it properly. It may sound shitty to say, but the average Joe isn't really fit to be a programmer. The average Joe is wondering why his new laptop doesn't have a cupholder like his old one did.

Quote

I don't know who would be little and talk down to someone who tells that to people...

My message is: Don't worry if you can't code perfect on the web, you cans still succeed...

I read something completely different. What I read was

Quote

On the web you can pay someone 1 grand to do the layout, and you can write all the crappy code you want, as long as it works... and still make a million if people love your site..

There's a huge difference between "you don't have to be perfect" and "just buy someone else's design and prop it up on shitty code."

You keep saying you're not smart. I have no frame of reference for your intelligence, so what I'll say is this: you can make up for that by studying. The response you're getting is because of the good-enough-for-government-work attitude. Like you can write crappy code so why push for more.

Quote

and there's people here that would act like dogs.

Dream in Code, as helpful as you've been, you can't hold a candle to digital point... at least the people there aren't overly rude.

Still, I'll stay, but learn how to treat people, lol.

Welcome to the lounge.

I don't fully agree. I think people are taking what I mean way out of context. I did say you could pay a grand and write your own crappy code... but I also don't mean that in the literal sense of complete garbage... You still have to be decent about your work... salt and encrypt passwords, filter data, use htmlentities for output, hide some data, use tokens to access elements in db, use payment processors and not store credit data, have ssl, use prepared statements.... of course I don't mean be a complete wing nut about it.... but I don't think you need to be super hardcore programmer to reach a level of security and usability that will both protect customers, and bring them enjoyment..

Quote

The average Joe is wondering why his new laptop doesn't have a cupholder like his old one did.

I don't know where you live, but I think you have a pretty poor outlook on people. It's easy to generalize about people you see, and say oh that guy holding up his beer partying is a dummy.. okay, then why is that he could tear your car apart and fix it in a day, and maybe you don't even know where your radiator is?

See what I'm saying? The average joe to me is the average joe, I'm not talking about zombies here, just people...

Now you say "coding isn't for them"... I think that would be like saying "scrap booking" isn't for you, just because your speech bubble is crooked... People can do what they please and makes them happy...

I still think it's good that average coders can make it on the web, and might not be able to anywhere else in IT because it's like rocket science... Who cares if they can never get a professional job?. Yes, some of those average coders will make money, maybe their million, while awesome coders don't... There's plenty of amazing coders out there who are offering professional help to people, but don't do a darn thing to code their own site or business, I think it's waste of time and talent...

but what ever.

This post has been edited by JeremyBenson11: 26 April 2015 - 09:20 AM

[kathy025]

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

I think people are taking what I mean way out of context.

Maybe because you keep saying things like a dirty politician:

JeremyBenson11, on 25 April 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

To me, it doesn't matter if my website runs like a Lamborghini... all that matters is that it looks like one.

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

What I said was as long as the site LOOKS good, has good HTML and CSS... it doesn't matter if the code underneath running it is sloppy.

These statements make you look very dishonest with what you do and you're all just in it for the $$$. A "scammer" in essence. It's not just about committing an actual fraud.

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

When you're a bad coder, that's all you can write

Incorrect. You can study and grow. Improve yourself and write good code, both outside and inside. The simplest things can tell what kind of values you hold. This applies to everything you do.

JeremyBenson11, on 26 April 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

My message is: Don't worry if you can't code perfect on the web, you cans still succeed...

Your purported "message" is not supported by what you've been saying.

If a developer has the "it's-dirty-but-it-sells" mentality, then no, they are not meant to code. Might as well be Justin Bieber's promoter.

As a first step for the OP, that mindset is one to avoid. />

[jon.kiparsky]

Okay, this particular dead horse has been sufficiently tenderized. Either JeremyBenson11 got the point, or he's not going to get the point. Either way, we can stop berating him now - okay?

Now let's get back to whatever it was we were talking about.

[cp24eva]

jon.kiparsky, on 26 April 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Okay, this particular dead horse has been sufficiently tenderized. Either JeremyBenson11 got the point, or he's not going to get the point. Either way, we can stop berating him now - okay?

Now let's get back to whatever it was we were talking about.

Thaaank you. Lol. This was getting out of hand. I understand both sides of the coin no matter who I agree with.