Programming or not.

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

19 Replies - 902 Views - Last Post: 23 February 2017 - 07:44 AM Rate Topic: -----

#1 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:15 AM

Any links to articles, etc. concerning when using SQL that best practice is code and sql not sql only.
Is This A Good Question/Topic? 0
  • +

Replies To: Programming or not.

#2 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:18 AM

SELECT 'Ah, what?' as Question
FROM dbo.RESPONSE with(nolock)
WHERE UNDERSTANDING is NULL

Was This Post Helpful? 2
  • +
  • -

#3 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:20 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 22 February 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

SELECT 'Ah, what?' as Question
FROM dbo.RESPONSE with(nolock)
WHERE UNDERSTANDING is NULL

Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#4 andrewsw   User is online

  • head thrashing
  • member icon

Reputation: 6629
  • View blog
  • Posts: 27,098
  • Joined: 12-December 12

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

this is going well
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#5 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:27 AM

Is your question that you did not ascertain the intent of my question:

If so I was attempting to be brief.

As a programmer since 1990, for many years and many places, SQL only solutions were AD HOC only, not production.

I have worked with the SQL only items, hec, I created a stored procedure that runs everyday ( in less than a minute ).

I am aware of the many new BI solutions and that you can present using SharePoint, etc.

I was looking for articles, etc that would explain Best practice when working with data bases, etc. I think that programming can still provide the Best, in many situations, solution for gathering, storing, retrieving data and provide a Best Support and modify environment.

Short SQL within code can be found, modified quickly as opposed to very lengthy SQL solutions, the kind that years later some place has to pay a contractor to modify, etc.

I figure there are people who have put those ideas / concepts in writing better than I, etc.

That is what I am looking for.

David.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#6 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:30 AM

Still not fully roping your steer you put out there. Is your question on basic releational database 101 knowledge? How to do more with a database outside of basic CRUD? A cookbook of various queries and uses?
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#7 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 22 February 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Still not fully roping your steer you put out there. Is your question on basic releational database 101 knowledge? How to do more with a database outside of basic CRUD? A cookbook of various queries and uses?

Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#8 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:34 AM

By chance are you using a mobile device?
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#9 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:39 AM

I am not sure on what part of my question is not clear:

Let us try this approach:

You are the person responsible for standards in a place that uses technical business solutions.

You have one group working for you that likes to write SQL that starts here and ends after you pass Go for the 20th time.
or
You have programmers who know how to present and interface to the public, store the data on a RDB, and retrieve, etc. The code takes care of any auto decision - tree branching logic and uses SQL to store the data after the code has done the heavy work.

I am not the best person to offer these explanation, perhaps since I have not substantial credentials ( Certs, etc ) only silly experience.

I am attempting to find some current articles that dilettante the difference, the advantages of when to use what approach.

As I wrote, there are many places where SQL only is AD HOC only. Perhaps times have changed, I am looking for professional opinions on the subject in the form of well written articles.

David.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#10 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:49 AM

Let's curb the sassa'tude on this Wednesday, David. I am just trying to ascertain what specific scenarios you clearly have in mind, but others do not.. since, well, folks are not there with you. You are chucking terms around that need more context. I am not calling out your certs, experience, or long term love affair with Delphi. It's cool; just having a conversation.

Databases should be fairly simple. Warehouse information. Relate that information using keys to other information. Provide the common ways to extract that information. Deal with the backup wrangling. There hasn't been (at least in my years of experience) and "ad-hoc" route around those activities. Have a common core of back end to provide what ever front end you need the data to function.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#11 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:19 AM

I am a bit confused.

Am I am the correct forum.

I figured some other programmers would have faced the issue of the SQL only crowd and how to define the benefits of code and SQL combined.

What part of my question has you confused. Each time I see a reply, there does not seem to be a connection to my question.

I will wait until someone with an interest and similar situation has a rely. I am just looking for links to articles on Best Practice concerning the two approaches to technical business solutions.

David.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#12 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:22 AM

Ah, well now we are getting somewhere. In what scenario would you have a SQL only shop? How would folk access the information without some sort of front end? I think the issue is simple it is inconceivable to _NOT_ have some client side be it web php/ruby/python/etc or .NET, Java, etc.

Are you seriously faced with people trying to do it all inside the database? That would be fairly asinine and clearly not in common step with the rest of the world.

What's their "pro only SQL" arguments?
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#13 longstrd   User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 11-August 11

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:36 AM

First: I agree.

next: Their arguments, I could provide a theroy, the last director allowed each person to use the tool of their choice. Some Tech people do not look at why to use what when. Maybe they like the challenge of Writing a SQL that has a Join of five tables and a cross join and a where close that goes on Co-a-less . . . in code I can check the data has I retrieve it . . .

I have supported SharePont, I have worked with SSRS and SSIS and I do belive in the situations where those items are best.

Yet, as you point, I do believe the user wants to retrieve data without having to constantly request tweaks by a IS pro.

Yet that is what we have. I looked at someone's stored proc the other day, had many "IFs" . I asked, wouldn't you rather put this in a program. their answer was 'no' I did not pursue the topic, people get defensive. Boy was that stored proc long.

I wrote a string of quires once, there was at the time no conditions, the quires just had to run in the correct order so I put them in a proc. I have always thought they would have of best been put in a program. However, they were all short quires that I could adjust in minutes.

We have new management. Just in case I thought perhaps I should be able to provide well written reasons about when to use programming or SqL only.

I will not deny that new BI tools are nifty, however, the support, the ability to quickly modify, etc. I do not think they think about that. Thinking of that topic is a sign of experience.

I also think that many of those concerned, who have learned, I use the term lightly since by learn mostly they get answer form forums. My point being that a person should learn a software first, especially conceptually ( a challenge of SharePoint ) and use forums, etc. for answers on top of what they already know. It is not how to learn the software but enhance knowledge by interacting with other professionals.

Well, it is a School District .. . not like sales is an issue etc.

David.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#14 modi123_1   User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 14502
  • View blog
  • Posts: 58,139
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:54 AM

I gotcha. Sure I've written SQL that would make the sea hag Ursla blush in the complexity and hoops it had to jump through to get the proper subset out, but then took that subset and manipulated it in C#/VB.NET for formatting, display, emails, etc. My theory is my SQL queries get me to a point of the right data out, and my other code is there to bash that data into something I need to use. A 30k foot 'Model-View-Controller' concept.

For the most part folks tend to push to keep the business and the data separate. The DB gets you the data you want, and the business code does something with it. I am a fan of procedures for this very reason. It keeps my layers coupled just right I can tweak the back end without having to recompile the front end as the need arises.

Not to mention DBs are way optimized for speed/efficiency on set transformations which will take longer on the business end. Well.. mostly.

CMS and thing Sharepoint are a different beast and blur those lines quite a bit, but as long as everyone is on board with basic flow of separation of data layers and business logic it is hard to go wrong.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#15 snoopy11   User is offline

  • Engineering ● Software
  • member icon

Reputation: 1550
  • View blog
  • Posts: 4,930
  • Joined: 20-March 10

Re: Programming or not.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 12:43 PM

Hmmm,

so let us get this straight you are in a School...

your School uses sql databases and uses SharePoint to access the data ?

like in this youtube video




anything new has to be hard coded by new sql queries..

and you're looking for intellectual articles on why this is just stupid or bad or maybe is the way to go ?

https://www.simple-t...esign-mistakes/

https://www.simple-t...u-should-avoid/

https://www.simple-t...e-provisioning/

is the best I can come up with at short notice

but your question just seems peculiar...

I know that isn't your intention but sorry it just does..
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2