[skyhawk133]

Given a stack of resumes to fill an entry level programming spot on your team, would you hire a computer science major, or a software engineering major and why?

The job will require the employee to develop various types of software including financial, scientific, business, and web based.

[1lacca]

In some other thread we've already seen that the curriculum varies from university to university, and even between graduates from the same institution. So you can make assumptions that a SE would be more capable of creating and designing an application, while a CS would excel in algorithm design and optimization. So you should choose what do you need for your team. It is a nice oversimplification of the problem, so as seen in the other thread about finding a good programmer, you should take a look at the resume of the candidates and check who has the skills your team needs for these projects.

[Martyr2]

Of course it would also depend on what your field of business is. If you are in the field of antivirus/security systems it might be better to choose a computer scientist given their expertise with algorithms. If you are looking to do web/desktop applications for retail then you might want an SE. If you do database design and need to develop something for optimization, I would go with an SE. If you were looking to write software for mission critical systems (like an x-ray machine) then I might lean to a computer scientist.

Of course it always depends. Like 1lacca said, validate a user on their credentials but also pick someone who is more likely to be in line with your core business.

[RodgerB]

Which degree would get you the most job placements out there though? I'm kinda tossing it up between the two, and need some advice as to what career would be more suitable for me. I do think Software Engineering would be more interesting to me, however is Computer Scientist more benificial for getting job placements?

Both seem very appealing, but terrible if I remove 3-4 years of my life to know I made the wrong decision.

[baavgai]

skyhawk133, on 14 Jan, 2008 - 11:46 AM, said:

Given a stack of resumes to fill an entry level programming spot on your team, would you hire a computer science major, or a software engineering major and why?

What's the difference? I've poked around google and still have no clue. When I went to school, computer science was it. I'd heard of software engineering, but always figured it a just the term of the moment, like MIS vs IT departments.

I may be biased, I chose to major in liberal arts because the CS options at the time seemed more contrived than insightful. I read resumes looking for flexibility and pretty much ignore the scholastic background. Did the candidate have experience in a number of different things, or were they hanging on to their one true language, hoping in vain that it didn't get migrated to Java?

I see VB6 here and shake my head. I had a guy just six months ago try to convince me of the wonders of Delphi. Delphi was a very cool language. There are lots of very cool languages that get marginalized over time. It's simply the nature of the computer world.

I suppose I'd look for a grounding and understanding of the basics, and a broad range of exposure. For schooling, any hands on stuff is probably dead by the time the student graduates.

[Programmist]

I think I've said this recently in other threads, but the difference between SE and CS depends on the school. But, I assure you, there IS a difference (at my school). If the graduate's school is ABET accredited, you can look at the objectives for each degree. The SE major will graduate with a little more experience and knowledge of the software development process and management thereof. The CS graduate will have a better understanding of more traditional topics, like algorithms, and database design, and newer topics like search engine optimization and intelligent systems. That's not to say that someone either discipline will not be cross-trained in areas of the other discipline, especially after a few years of experience.

This post has been edited by Programmist: 15 January 2008 - 04:08 AM

[1lacca]

Exactly, when we had a session where the faculties were advertising their courses and some industry representatives were invited to introduce their field, one of them told us, that although it seems like one of the biggest choices in our life so far, just relax, it won't do much difference, because it is very likely that right in your first job you'll do something totally different.

- I chose sometimes courses that I hated the most, because I knew that it would be good to know those things, but I would never touch them on my own, while other things I really liked I would learn happily by myself (visiting courses I did not take)

[Nykc]

I am a programmer analyst for a financial institution with a degree in interdisciplinary studies with an emphasis on computers. lol, they just want to see a degree and back it up with some samples of your work.

Seriously, I noticed in my job searches that majority of requirements was for a degree of some sort in computers. I also see alot asking for a degree in computer science as well.

My favorite is how people want you to be A+ certified on top of everything, even though you are not fixing computers, networking or troubleshooting. Pretty soon you will need to be MCSE certified to hold a position as a fry cook at Big Boy.

This post has been edited by nykc: 15 January 2008 - 07:04 AM

[Programmist]

1lacca, on 15 Jan, 2008 - 06:23 AM, said:

- I chose sometimes courses that I hated the most, because I knew that it would be good to know those things, but I would never touch them on my own, while other things I really liked I would learn happily by myself (visiting courses I did not take)

Same here. I chose CS over SE because I knew that I could pick up the SE topics more easily on my own on the job. plus, I want to work for Google for a few years at some point and a strong CS background wouldn't hurt.

nykc, on 15 Jan, 2008 - 08:03 AM, said:

I am a programmer analyst for a financial institution with a degree in interdisciplinary studies with an emphasis on computers. lol, they
Seriously, I noticed in my job searches that majority of requirements was for a degree of some sort in computers. I also see alot asking for a degree in computer science as well.

My favorite is how people want you to be A+ certified on top of everything, even though you are not fixing computers, networking or troubleshooting. Pretty soon you will need to be MCSE certified to hold a position as a fry cook at Big Boy.

Job "requirements" are usually more like a wish list. But, if someone told me that I needed to be A+ certified to develop code for them I'd be really surprised. I'd also start asking more questions about the nature of the job because if they want me to do computer support in tandem with developing, I'll be out of there faster than you can say "start-up."

[Nykc]

Programmist, on 15 Jan, 2008 - 10:04 AM, said:

Job "requirements" are usually more like a wish list. But, if someone told me that I needed to be A+ certified to develop code for them I'd be really surprised. I'd also start asking more questions about the nature of the job because if they want me to do computer support in tandem with developing, I'll be out of there faster than you can say "start-up."

My job personally didn't ask for A+ certification, lol - but actually I have seen that in several want ads I wanted to fulfill, one was even for a web developer! lol -

I was just trying to stress now and days you need to have some piece of parchment to be considered for employment. I think they just want to see that you made the effort to learn. the requirements for my job was experience with HTML and CSS and 2 years in a IT related field. When I got here I was told to learn SQL, Javascript and ColdFusion for various systems we have.

Certifications tells the employer you are skilled in an area.
A degree really stresses you are commited.

In my opinion some of the best programmers have neither.

[1lacca]

Quote

Certifications tells the employer you are skilled in an area.
A degree really stresses you are commited.

In my opinion some of the best programmers have neither.

In my experience:
- exceptional programmers might not had a degree (most of them had), but they were sweating blood to get one (and they succeeded sooner or later)
- excellent programmers usually had a degree

Alright, I'm a bit biased towards (respected) formal qualifications/degrees (it's not the degree in itself, but the community you can build or get into, and the spirit of the institution), however I must stress that a degree in itself doesn't mean anything.

[ajwsurfer]

Quote

Certifications tells the employer you are skilled in an area.
A degree really stresses you are commited.

In my opinion some of the best programmers have neither.

Yeah, for HTML, CSS, SQL, Javascript and ColdFusion.

For Multi-tier Web, database and/or application programming I would go with CS.

For Building low level software, or software that will become hardware when development is complete, I would go with SE.

For Networking it is a toss up, unless you are using a Netgear wireless router with four ports.

[1lacca]

ajwsurfer, on 23 Jan, 2008 - 09:34 PM, said:

Quote

Certifications tells the employer you are skilled in an area.
A degree really stresses you are commited.

In my opinion some of the best programmers have neither.

Yeah, for HTML, CSS, SQL, Javascript and ColdFusion.

For Multi-tier Web, database and/or application programming I would go with CS.

For Building low level software, or software that will become hardware when development is complete, I would go with SE.

For Networking it is a toss up, unless you are using a Netgear wireless router with four ports.

Whoah, this is really different from my experience

Quote

Yeah, for HTML, CSS, SQL, Javascript and ColdFusion.

For these only the portfolio would be enough, no degree us really needed, they are closer to arts than to science (for me at least)

Quote

For Multi-tier Web, database and/or application programming I would go with CS.

This is what I would go with a SE, because here design and architecture what counts.

Quote

For Building low level software, or software that will become hardware when development is complete, I would go with SE.

I would go with either with the CS or the toss up here.

Quote

For Networking it is a toss up, unless you are using a Netgear wireless router with four ports.

I lean here towards an engineer... unless you are working on the congestion handling protocol, that would be a CS.

[Programmist]

Yeah - my experience is pretty much in line with yours. For low-level stuff or anything getting close to hardware, there's not way I'd hire SE grad. More likely I'd go with a CS grad or a CE (Computer Engineering) grad with C++ experience.

[Cyborg Ninja]

"My favorite is how people want you to be A+ certified on top of everything, even though you are not fixing computers, networking or troubleshooting. Pretty soon you will need to be MCSE certified to hold a position as a fry cook at Big Boy."

LOL, I've noticed that myself. I might be looking scouring through some listings and I'll see a list of "requirements" several lines long, filled with just about every programming/markup language known to man. Even web design jobs that require you to know unnecessary programs like Dreamweaver.