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#1 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:37 AM

Soooo... TinyLimp has released a GNU/Linux OS. Not a Windows replacement, but aimed at IOT.

Microcontrollers are not really my area... Any thoughts?

Does this update anyone's bets on how long it'll be before Windows is a GNU/Linux distro under the hood?
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#2 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:44 AM

TinyLimp?
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#3 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:03 AM

Yeah. You know, funny lookin' guys from up Seattle way?
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#4 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:07 AM

I guess not. :/
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#5 baavgai   User is online

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 30 May 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

Does this update anyone's bets on how long it'll be before Windows is a GNU/Linux distro under the hood?


In theory, if they managed to get the whole OS on .NET like originally envisioned, you'd already be there. I don't know if they'll ever quite get there, but I don't doubt that some want to go that direction.

The Azure cloud has had Linux elements from almost the beginning. In addition to Linux Virtualization, it was long rumored that their cloud itself used Linux. Confirmed here: https://www.wired.co...inux-run-cloud/

Since then, they have released their flagship management terminal as cross platform: PowerShell. Always a mutant hybrid of DOS, .NET, and more unixy parents, PowerShell is the tool of choice for all kinds of Windows / Azure admin tasks.

There's also Docker support in Windows world, for both Windows and Linux ( though, alas, not at the same time. ) Actually, Docker support does highlight a major issue with Windows: their network stack sucks. This could be what drives a radical move.

Frankly, I use Windows because some hardware hasn't gotten the memo and Windows runs more games. I had hopes for the Universal Windows Platform but, at this point, it feels a little like it's already circling the SilverLight drain.

View Postmodi123_1, on 30 May 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

TinyLimp?


Dude, it's almost sweet you don't get that. :P Micro-Soft ~= Tiny-Limp.
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#6 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 01:01 PM

View Postbaavgai, on 30 May 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

In theory, if they managed to get the whole OS on .NET like originally envisioned, you'd already be there. I don't know if they'll ever quite get there, but I don't doubt that some want to go that direction.


Interesting, I hadn't been thinking in that direction but it makes sense.
I was thinking of something more fundamental, like actually throwing away the Windows OS and replacing it with a compatibility layer. Seems like a big job, but they're a big company, and long-term the advantages are massive. And frankly, they've been making huge investment in linux for a while now, so it's interesting to think about why that's been going on.

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Since then, they have released their flagship management terminal as cross platform: PowerShell. Always a mutant hybrid of DOS, .NET, and more unixy parents, PowerShell is the tool of choice for all kinds of Windows / Azure admin tasks.


Powershell was interesting to play with back when I was working in a Windows shop, but I ended up installing python and using that instead.
I did hear a story about a guy who supposedly wrote a minimal C compiler in Powershell, then used that to compile the GCC and then installed all of the GNU software that he wanted from source - this being his way of getting around a locked corporate machine.

This is pretty apocryphal and I'm pretty sure I don't believe it, but I want it to be true.
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#7 baavgai   User is online

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 03:12 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 30 May 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

but I ended up installing python and using that instead.


Been there, done that. If Python's mantra is "there should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it" then PowerShell's "one way is for wimps." However, with Python in Window's you'll usually hit a library, amazingly enough, that exists in the GAC but not in Python. PowerShell, in spite of being a truly quirky and fugly language, doesn't have this issue.

Like C#, PowerShell has matured to be a kitchen sink hot mess, but a useful one. You can write far nicer, and more readable, code than previously possible. Curiously, the 6.0 cross platform core is still not shipped with the OS, but does live in Azure.
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#8 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Azure Sphere OS

Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:50 PM

Powershell felt a tad too close to perl for my tastes. Obviously, it never had the sort of baroque abundance of weirdness that perl specialized in - you wouldn't write JAPHs in powershell - but it just always felt like it was trying way too hard.

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with Python in Window's you'll usually hit a library, amazingly enough, that exists in the GAC but not in Python


I can actually see how that would be - I'm guessing that maybe the missing libraries have underlying C dependencies that nobody has got around to implementing? Sounds like there's an opportunity here for some enterprising pythonista/C hacker who spends time in the Windows world.

Never really ran into the missing libraries problem myself, as it turns out, but I was doing very basic stuff, I think everything I was using was in the standard library. My biggest win there was writing a tool to facilitate deployments. I was too new and dumb to know how very bad an idea that was, but I did know that my boss's process was even worse: he would manually copy the files that he could think of that had changed from his local machine onto the production server.

I still don't know how the hell he kept his job for ten years. I suspect it was just that nobody who was competent to see how bad he was would ever sign on to work there - which was handy for me, because it made an opening for my first gig in the tech world.
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