Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

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37 Replies - 1578 Views - Last Post: 20 March 2019 - 07:51 AM

#16 Absinthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:22 PM

That's what her question to me is. She's not spamming people, she sends out requests to buy advertisements.

" no, buying another domain won't solve anything, because it's your smtp servers ip address that is poisoned. "

This helps, thank you so much. How have you been?
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#17 astonecipher   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:26 PM

Domain isn't always the issue, the IP is more likely to get blacklisted as well.


I'd second, third, or forth the service aspect, I use MailGun for everything and not only does it give bounce backs, but full analytics as well. I mean, you would be looking at ~$30/ month for 75,000 emails to go out, but that is an estimate and far cheaper than maintaining a box, or dealing with blacklisting (because they can not only help with that, but deal with it as well).


I can't help on the server itself, that is typically an infrastructure or SysAdmin thing for places I've been that were big enough to want one.
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#18 ArtificialSoldier   User is online

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:27 PM

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I hope to get answered that they keep asking me is if we have our own smtp server and it eventually becomes red flagged or blacklisted, what are our options?

That up to the people that have you blacklisted. Maybe there are steps you can take to remove yourself, maybe not. If not, changing the domain name won't do anything, you would need a new IP address hopefully not part of the same block as the previous one.

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We do offer a legitimate service in the Education sector but send emails to businesses around schools and colleges, asking for support in exchange for advertisement etc.

Unless you have an existing business relationship with those other schools and colleges, then it sounds like you are describing Unsolicited Commercial Email. That's the "official" description of spam. If you're actually spamming people, if you're sending emails where they would click "Yes, this is spam" if asked by Gmail, then your options are pretty limited.

This is important - if these schools and colleges are current customers of yours - if you have an existing business relationship, then maybe it's not spam. If they are not your customers, and you are advertising to them, then it's spam, regardless of how good your intentions are.

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We're trying to build the company and organically go to the chamber of commerce in the towns, search for businesses and their emails and add them to the list.

You're describing email address harvesting. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is literally the same thing that spammers do. The content of your email isn't really that important, if you're harvesting email addresses and advertising to them then you're spamming. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to give you my perspective, or play the devil's advocate.

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I agree but they want me to build this stupid server for some reason. I think they should just let someone else handle it. They're insisting.

Hopefully you can use some of this in your response:

You're a programmer, not a server admin. Server administration is a legitimate career, there are people who only do that. That's not your expertise.

Part of spam blocking is looking at a whole lot of email headers, SPF records, all kinds of things that you don't know about. There are computer-readable privacy policies sent in email headers. How much research do they want you to do for this? Building an SMTP server is easy. Making sure it's protected and compliant with a multitude of policies is another issue.

SMTP servers have historically been ripe targets for attackers. If attackers can send their emails using your server, then they don't get blocked, you do. Do you want to get blocked because of a misconfiguration on your server? Again, this is what happens when people ask programmers to administer servers, something that they're just not trained to do. Suggest they could send you to school to learn server administration to help get the point across that it's a completely different field. Programmers use SMTP servers, we don't administer them.

All of that being said, my only degree is in computer science and I'm a CTO for a small business, which means I do have to manage our servers. I don't understand everything around them, but thankfully the only people we send emails to are the people who actually have accounts in our application, so spam reports should be very low. I do know that people who use AOL typically don't receive our emails, I get a lot of rejections from AOL. After trying to contact them several times and looking into the situation and not being able to figure out the secret ingredient that AOL demands, I just decided to say that we don't support AOL. Which, again, is generally fine because the vast majority of our users are corporate or government people who are not using AOL for email.

Impress on them that server administration is a separate career and is not what you do, and not what you want to do. Being interested in programming and being interested in the subtleties of mail transfer are not the same thing. That's like expecting a construction worker to also be a mechanic just because he drives a vehicle.
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#19 Absinthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:28 PM

Jon, thanks for the reply. She has an unsubscribe button but I'm not sure how visible it is. She says she pulls their names if they unsubscribe. I think the list contains alot of people that dont reply. Is there a service like MailChimp that will remove people that don't respond? I think her list is eat up with them and she's overwhelmed in thinking how to remove them.
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#20 Absinthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:34 PM

ArtificialSoldier, we do have contracts with the schools and colleges.

"You're describing email address harvesting. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is literally the same thing that spammers do. The content of your email isn't really that important, if you're harvesting email addresses and advertising to them then you're spamming. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to give you my perspective, or play the devil's advocate."

I get what you're saying and no worries man, you're educating me on alot of this. I've never been in a profession like I am now. We do offer a service, the schools get a check and artwork and the businesses that are onboard get advertisement. But we do send emails to random businesses. There should be a better model.

Thanks for the response, very informative.
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#21 no2pencil   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:36 PM

Honest question, you're client is an elderly woman that recently lost her mother? I swear to god if my client is double dipping... Course she wouldn't know "SMTP" for the life of her. But this sounds EXACTLY like some bullshit I'm currently dealing with. She refuses to clean her 'contact list', & wonders why half her emails are getting refused delivery. We are currently switching her from her existing mail house SendGrid to MailChimp. All because she refuses to spent $80 for their advanced tier, & she uses their entry teir. Their entry tier gets black listed as the ip pool is smaller. All of this is also in the Education sector.

View PostAbsinthe, on 19 March 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

Is there a service like MailChimp that will remove people that don't respond?


Not sure about responding, but MailChimp rates each entry on the list. After x bounces, they are auto-removed, if the domain doesn't exist, they are removed. It self-cleans the list, because it's in their best interest to not be a spam house.

& I absolutely agree with ArtificialSoldier, everything you're describing is a spammer. The way the emails are gathered, how they are used, how they are abused. The only difference is you're doing this from a legit business, & that has you confused. The fact you're asking about cleanup is the final nail in the coffin.
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#22 Absinthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:37 PM

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"Honest question, you're client is an elderly woman that recently lost her mother? I swear to god if my client is double dipping... Course she wouldn't know "SMTP" for the life of her. "


Lol! It's her! Jesus, I hate hard headed old people.
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#23 no2pencil   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:38 PM

Seriously? Send me PM.
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#24 Absinthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:40 PM

No2,

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I absolutely agree with ArtificialSoldier, everything you're describing is a spammer. The way the emails are gathered, how they are used, how they are abused. The only thing is you're doing this from a legit business. The fact you're asking about cleanup is the final nail in the coffin.


Maybe it is considered spamming. I don't know. Now I feel like shit.

How would we change our business model to not do this?
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#25 no2pencil   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:41 PM

You create a newsletter, & you send that to people that opt-in, also known as subscribing.

You use proper SEO to capture traffic, & if they want to have further correspondence, those options are available to them as they browse your site.

Lastly, you reach out via Facebook, or Facebook ads, or other social media, use tracking pixels, drive & monitor traffic from social media to your website, where, again, they can opt-in to further communication channels.
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#26 absynthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:47 PM

View Postno2pencil, on 19 March 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Seriously? Send me PM.


Nah, she's older but unless you're on the east coast probably not. Lol!
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#27 astonecipher   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:48 PM

So you two have the same client... Interesting!
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#28 no2pencil   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:49 PM

It sounds like it. If we scrubbed that mail list (which the number sounds the same) just for her to go elsewhere, I'm going to hurt someone. It's insane, she'd rather pay $30/hr to keep polishing this turd, rather than $80/year for upgraded service.
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#29 absynthe   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:50 PM

As far as spamming, the people receive 3 emails a year. Spring, Fall and Winter. Is that still spamming?

Also, if she goes with mailchimp would they consider that spamming and lock her down?
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#30 no2pencil   User is offline

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Re: Does anyone have any experience with SMPT servers?

Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:51 PM

View Postabsynthe, on 19 March 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

View Postno2pencil, on 19 March 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Seriously? Send me PM.


Nah, she's older but unless you're on the east coast probably not. Lol!

We are on the east-coast, & the client is mid-west (still EST time zone)
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