[Splashsky]

I was going to make a bit of a statement on how the goalposts of the lock down have shifted and the numbers we see don't justify the reality we've put ourselves in, but I think that with the context of a crippled economy, the spread of COVID even during lock down, one quote by a former PM of Great Britain and one quote from Queen Amidala in Star Wars Episode III...

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Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, if is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

And in the context of Canada passing that gun ban via order in counsel while the government isn't sitting, Alphabet censoring and removing content that happens to deviate from the orders of unelected official, to the willingness of people to snitch on their fellows or to wear a mask in their own home...

Quote

So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause. - Queen Amidala

And actually, let me finish off with one more quote that damns the fear mongering mentality over a virus with a 95%+ recovery rate.

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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

And I am aware of the context in which Ben Franklin said this. However, it applies rather succinctly when we'll be corralled like livestock and accept monitoring by drones, arrest for being out in a park with no one around, and Bill Gates' vision of a privacy-free society.

All this, hilarious if not for the seriousness of it, over a virus that disproportionately affects the elderly and most will recover form with no side effects.

May God have mercy on our souls.

[DarenR]

im curious -- why dont you go into a room with 100 of your closest friends and relatives and pick 5 of them out and kill them-- that is about the equivalent of your absurd notion that oh well only 5-6% of the people die----

can you name 1 other disease that has that mortality %?   
covid-19 = 5-6%

communicable:
flu = 0.09%
influenza = 0.129%


non communicable:
gun deaths: 0.012%
cancer = 0.1551%

[jon.kiparsky]

Splashsky, on 20 May 2020 - 09:13 AM, said:

I think that with the context of a crippled economy,

Economies recover. Dead people don't.
If you cared about the economy, you would be agitating to have Mnuchin's head on a platter - he's actually holding onto stimulus money that could be used, right now, to support people who are in dire economic straits due to the lockdown. Keeping those people afloat now is the single most important thing to do to support the economy going forward, but the McConnell administration refuses to do it, and the McConnell senate and the Anarchist Death Cult that controls it are doing everything it can do to prevent any consideration of such measures.

Clearly your concerns about the economy are bullshit, so spare us.

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the spread of COVID even during lock down,

Interesting. I'm not sure which wrong thing you're arguing here, there are several options.

Are you saying that the lockdown was not strong enough, and should have been policed more?
Or are you saying that because the Trump Virus spread even during lockdown, that the lockdown was a bad idea?
Or are you saying that the virus isn't really a bad thing, and that having it spread during lockdown is fine?
Or what exactly is it that this clause is meant to be telling us? As usual, your incoherence and failure to think through what you're saying have left me without an adequate response, because there's just too many ways in which your words could be utter bullshit.

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Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, if is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

So you're saying that if someone claims a law is necessary, that means the law is an infringement of human freedom?
That would seem to imply that we should only ever pass unnecessary laws. Are you absolutely sure that's an argument you want to make?

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over a virus that disproportionately affects the elderly and most will recover form with no side effects.

You have been following the news, right? This virus "disproportionately affects" those exposed to it. And while it's true that more people recover than do not recover, it is incorrect to say that there are "no side effects". Again, you would know this if you were reading the actual news. Try to keep up with current events if you're going to comment on them, instead of wasting people's time with the bullshit that your owners want you to believe.

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May God have mercy on our souls.

We've been over this before. God as described in the bible is a liberal, the child of migrants, a practitioner of socialized medicine, a distributor of welfare benefits. If this god actually existed, the entire Republican party would have been plagued with boils and festering sores. This has not happened, therefore god as described in the bible does not exist, therefore its hypothetical mercy is irrelevant to grownups.

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Queen Amidala in Star Wars Episode III...

Fake news. There are exactly three Star Wars movies, and no such character appears in them.

[modi123_1]

jon.kiparsky, on 20 May 2020 - 10:16 AM, said:

[...]

Quote

Queen Amidala in Star Wars Episode III...

Fake news. There are exactly three Star Wars movies, and no such character appears in them.

Minor diversion, I think under certain musical circumstances others could exist. Example.

[ge∅]

Splashsky said:

I was going to make a bit of a statement
... blablabla quote
let me finish off with
... blablabla quote
May God have mercy on our souls

... are you trying to make a point or are you trying to make an impression? You should stop following this dude on Youtube who speaks fancy but has nothing clever to say. You are being brainwashed. Rhetorical effects are not thinking.

Confirmed cases and hospitalisation figures before, during and after lockdowns all over the World are all over the place. And you as a programmer are even able to access the raw data and digest it yourself! Dude, wake up, you are angry with reality.

[ArtificialSoldier]

I've got 2 things to add.

First, I'll start with my own quote. Instead of science fiction, this is from the US Supreme Court in the case of Jacobson vs. Massachusetts (1905), in a 7-2 majority opinion:

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"in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand" and that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

And, the second thing. You said this:

Quote

All this, hilarious if not for the seriousness of it, over a virus that disproportionately affects the elderly

We're not living in a vacuum, are we? Those people aren't just "the elderly," they also have lives that they've lived, they're real people. Let's consider what those people did. Those people saw our country get attacked, and they volunteered to go fight and maybe die in places like Normandy, Africa, Germany, Peleliu, Saipan, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. Over 400,000 of them never came back home, but out of the ones who did, a lot of them are still alive. They are the single most at-risk group, and you're not willing to simply stay at home and wear a mask to help protect them. Keep your faux patriotic bullshit to yourself and think about what's really important. Here's a hint: it's not you, and it's not me.

You said it, bud. May God have mercy on our souls.

[ge∅]

Also, we really don't know the long term effects of COVID-19. It could be causing many issues in young people who got it and recovered. I'm exaggerating but imagine a virus which would cause 1% deaths but makes every body else sterile. That would be the end of capitalism (wink).

[ArtificialSoldier]

Yeah, I think someone (you?) posted a link to a possible connection with Kawasaki disease. There are plenty of unknowns about this virus still. And Kawasaki disease seems to primarily affect children.

And, man, I really hate this talking point:

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the numbers we see don't justify the reality we've put ourselves in

The numbers we see are BECAUSE of the reality we've put ourselves in. It's like a skydiver seeing how slow he's falling and deciding he doesn't need the parachute, look at how slowly he's drifting down. The parachute must have been fear mongering.

[ge∅]

Yes, and they found the virus in sperm... just saying...

[ArtificialSoldier]

Well, just one more reason to wash your hands.

[DarenR]

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The numbers we see are BECAUSE of the reality we've put ourselves in. It's like a skydiver seeing how slow he's falling and deciding he doesn't need the parachute, look at how slowly he's drifting down. The parachute must have been fear mongering.

ive been sky diving and at no time did i ever think that i was drifting slowly down---- in fact i wish i had more than 1 parachute and maybe a nice spongy landing platform at the end instead i got flying cheeks, 1 chute that i held onto dear life with and a rock up my ass on landing -- but yeah it was fun

[ArtificialSoldier]

I did the indoor wind tunnel skydiving thing once. Dude told me to smile and I spit all over my face.

[DarenR]

the instructors tell you, "if you have to throw up, tap the instructors shoulder and turn your head away from them". well the group before us obviously had someone not paying attention because the little instructor lady (5' tall maybe 100# ) unhooked herself from her person and ran to the bathroom cussing and yelling-----
she needed a change of clothes and a shower--

[Splashsky]

But we already know that distancing didn't do anything significant. Sweden isn't significantly worse than its neighbors. Texas isn't in as bad a shape as Michigan. From numbers I've read, including elderly homes, 66% of NY's cases are from those who were isolated.

Then how about the overreporting? The CDC's reports have within them a separation between "deaths from COVID" and "deaths with COVID", in which you see about a 25% difference, particularly actual deaths from COVID are 25% lower than the 90k+ they're pushing. To take a rather extreme example, there was a man recently who had depression due to one his family members being in the hospital with COVID, and committed suicide. His death proceeded to be reported as a COVID death. Committed suicide? Got killed by the COVID!

Colorado is working on fixing the law to begin properly separating from and with deaths. The death rate of those within the life expentancy range of the US is somewhere in the realm of 0.5%.

I feel bad for those old folk. I don't want people to die. Which is also why I want life to continue.

Also, Amidala was still queen by the team of Episode 3, but if I'm wrong then she was still a senator. Anywho, quote remains.

You all seem to still be convinced that 30 million lost jobs, increases in suicide and domestic abuse, the move towards a literal police state, and the push for untested vaccines that likely will cause the same issues they did when pushed in India a few years ago, will end up a better result than just ripping the bandaid off and getting over it. A good economist knows there are no solutions, only tradeoffs. You seem to be willing to sacrifice freedom and your livelihood and the livelihoods of your fellows on the altar of unelected officials who've been wrong about COVID almost the whole time.

For example, we were first told by the WHO there was no human to human transmission, while they ignored Taiwan's warnings. They said masks were useless before rolling that back. They said 2 million deaths in the US, but we're less than 5% of that, and those were the predictions they made even including distancing.

Theyve been wrong again and again and again. Yet you still lap up everything they say and push as gospel, not daring to question the evidence staring you in the face. It's quite sad how quickly people will give up their rights when theyre told to be scared.

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We went from "flatten the curve" to "find the cure".
We went from "social distancing" to "house arrest".
We went from "two weeks" to "three months".
We went from "we're in this together" to "snitch on your neighbors".
We went from "individual liberty" to "comply or pay fines".

We lost the target, and the government knows it. - Viva Frei, Montreal Litigator

Except I'd say we know what the target is. The people have laid down their rights willingly. How much easier could we have made it? They have the key to all the control they've ever wanted. Bill Gates has been working on this for a while, ready to pounce with a suggestion for the biometric database a la India, and the very nice, definitely not Big Brother-ish contact tracing. The good ol climate activists are pushing this as the perfect time to "flatten the climate curve".

There's an insistence we won't go back to normal until an experimental, untested vaccine is delivered to the world. If you see nothing wrong with everything happening, then perhaps it's better it does. It's a very sorry thing to see.

[ArtificialSoldier]

I threw up on the bottom of the ocean once while scuba diving. One of the highlights of my career. So many fish came in.