How simple can Strong AI be?

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59 Replies - 3794 Views - Last Post: 28 February 2021 - 10:07 AM

#1 marsh8472   User is offline

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How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 07 February 2021 - 12:38 PM

I wonder how hard it actually is to create the simplest strong AI? Something that can grow in intelligence on its own and become at least as intelligent as an average person. On the surface sometimes it doesn't seem so difficult to create software that can generally learn on its own then let that software take care of the rest.

If it were possible to find the simplest possible way to do it with as little amount of code as possible do you think it could be done without much code needed? Or does it need to be some huge code project gigabytes in size, long nights pounding your head on the keyboard, lots of libraries, and lots of resources to run it?

[img]https://i.ibb.co/QjZSBD6/AIpic.jpg[/img]

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#2 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 07 February 2021 - 01:00 PM

There's a large number of unknown hand waving in there.

Simplest in what terms?
Strong in what terms?
"Intelligent as an average person" for what? A single task? Consciousness? Vidjagamez playing? Fact recall? Language processing? Hotdog recognition?
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#3 marsh8472   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 07 February 2021 - 01:38 PM

Simplest like a "hello world" app is compared to something else. Strong like it can pass the Turing test on an adult level consistently. I don't think it needs to have consciousness but would be nice. Yes it would need to be able to recognize a hotdog from a non-hotdog and the other types of CAPTCHA exercises.

This post has been edited by Skydiver: 07 February 2021 - 05:37 PM
Reason for edit:: Removed unnecessary quote. No need to quote the post above yours.

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#4 Skydiver   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 07 February 2021 - 05:39 PM

By the amount of software needed to support this, does that include the OS that it needs to run on, and if it needs Internet connections/capabilities, the software used to run the other machines, gateways, firewalls, routers, DNS, time servers, etc.?
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#5 jon.kiparsky   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 07 February 2021 - 05:57 PM

I'm not sure the Turing test is really such a great benchmark. People turn out to be amazingly forgiving, and willing to do an amazing amount of work to anthropomorphize their conversational interlocutors. (see, for example, Twitter)

And if you think about it, this is sort of built into the higher-level linguistic habits that we require in order to even have a prayer of holding a conversation in the first place. Basically, you want to look into pragmatics and the "Gricean maxims" that govern our conversational interactions. Essentially, in order to have a conversation we have to assume that the other party is "playing the game cooperatively", and we have to interpret what they say generously. For example, if someone stops me on the street to ask me if there is an ATM nearby, I do not answer "yes" (which, in any city, is the correct answer) but instead I endeavor to give them clear and correct directions to the nearest ATM which I believe to be in working order and available to the public. Many other examples could be trotted out, but they all go to the same point: we're always going to be playing on the computer's side in this game.

That being said, I would want to see a convincing strong AI before I tried to speculate on ways to optimize the code, and as yet I see no reason to believe that current or plausible future digital technology is even capable of supporting a real-time strong AI.
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#6 marsh8472   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 16 February 2021 - 09:17 PM

Maybe a digital ecosystem that works on the properties of natural selection and make sure intelligence is considered a survival trait.
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#7 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 16 February 2021 - 09:18 PM

Maybe.. there's still no clear definition on the goal posts, but hey - take a swing at the fences on the problem!
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#8 marsh8472   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 16 February 2021 - 09:57 PM

I can provide more specifications. Making the simplest app that can become Strong AI by this definition:

Quote

Key characteristics of Strong AI include the ability to reason, solve puzzles, make judgments, plan, learn, and communicate. It should also have consciousness, objective thoughts, self-awareness, sentience, and sapience. Strong AI is also called True Intelligence or Artificial General Intelligence (AGI).


Then once the app acquires strong AI it can be presented to the scientific community, peer reviewed, and determined to be a Strong AI.
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#9 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 16 February 2021 - 10:22 PM

So you want the White Whale or the Holy Grail. Gotcha. ;)
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#10 Skydiver   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 09:23 AM

Where is SkyNet when you need it?
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#11 marsh8472   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 11:01 AM

I'm hoping the code is short and simple. Like a recursive function that takes off on its own. Or filling up a few squares on Conway's game of life then let it take off. I think Nomad and V'Ger from the original star trek series were created this way if I recall.
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#12 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 11:08 AM

Let's take a step back. "programming" from a tv show or movie is not a good basis for grounded comparison in terms of time or complexity in the real world.

Second, if the code was short and simple, wouldn't it make sense that this omnipotent/do-everything AI would have been stumbled upon, or intentionally created, by now?

I guess one could argue the Shadowrun/Digital Sapients theory that if said code was let loose it would do what it could to hide in the communication grid and become a ghost in the machine of sorts.
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#13 jon.kiparsky   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 11:09 AM

View Postmarsh8472, on 17 February 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

I'm hoping the code is short and simple. Like a recursive function that takes off on its own. Or filling up a few squares on Conway's game of life then let it take off. I think Nomad and V'Ger from the original star trek series were created this way if I recall.



Star Trek? You mean the fictional science fiction show where they could just make up things like teleportation and warp drives?

Yes, they were pretty good at coming up with simple things because the things they came up with didn't have to work.
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#14 marsh8472   User is offline

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 07:48 PM

Just trying to coming up with context you can relate to. Often times things seem simplier once you figure it out. I'm getting the sense that it won't be this lot that figures it out though.
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#15 modi123_1   User is online

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Re: How simple can Strong AI be?

Posted 17 February 2021 - 08:17 PM

View Postmarsh8472, on 17 February 2021 - 08:48 PM, said:

Just trying to coming up with context you can relate to. Often times things seem simplier once you figure it out. I'm getting the sense that it won't be this lot that figures it out though.


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