Terminator best way to stop skynet

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#1 albert003   User is offline

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Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:33 PM

I was watching terminator 1,2 and 3. I was thinking of a few things that couldve ended the whole thing or prevented it from happening.
1. Skynet becomes 'alive' in Terminator 3. Why didn't anyone just go to the fusebox or the buildings power centre and shut off the power? Skynet didn't have anything other then the flying hunters.
2. On that topic, most programs have a backdoor, why didn't someone in another room enter the software and shut it down. Yes I realise skynet was alive but computers can't calculate every move a human makes which is why humans can beat computer games.
3. Since all of the computers where in a network and possibly bomgard to share files quickly amongst themselves, couldn't someone just press control alt delete to reset skynet?
4. Skynet is software and a virus or a computer can do things with software. It would be impossible for it to launch icbm. considering it takes two people to move the key at the same time.

I realise its a movie but these things always bothered me about the movie.

So now, my next question for all of you guys.... What would you have changed in the series, added or done differently? I'm really interested in knowing.

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Replies To: Terminator best way to stop skynet

#2 finetunewithhammer   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 03:28 AM

I wonder what a 'Criminal Minds' style psychological profile done on Skynet would look like. What are its motivations? Skynet became self aware. OK. Did it see itself as a being? Was it aware that it was 'software' in the same way we are aware that we are databases of stimulus response pairs built on top of a biochemical machine with environmental sensors giving us a framework for pleasure and self interest that is our real motivator either directly or indirectly. Was its knowledge of self blurred and fuzzy like ours is? What did Skynet derive its motivation from? Its software? Wouldn't that just be a simple directive? Or was it interconnected to the real world in a way that gave it a framework of self, thus allowing it to feel, or did it realize only intellectually that self preservation was a 'desirable' thing?

A being can not learn without interaction. Senses are needed.
A being can not be self motivated without a sense of self. The being needs to be interwoven to reality.

As I remember and interpreted the movies, (I've only seen the first two, way back when) Skynets self preservation goal was probably a programming error, or more accurately an oversight. The rules for when this goal was prioritized were probably such that they grew and adapted. I don't think it is necessary for Skynet to be self aware for it to 'want' (effectively work towards the goal of) to wage war on humans. I think that a self aware being could learn to relate to humans, so an evil automation controller is more believable than an evil aware being, tho the latter is certainly possible too.

Maybe we should be scared of the scenario in the movie even before artificial awareness is a thing.

The movies need not be changed, just clearly labeled as 80's action, this way our expectations are met and exceeded.
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#3 modi123_1   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 07:39 AM

My hot take on the points.

1. That wouldn't work as Skynet has transcended just one building. I took the existence to be in a state like the AI from Shadowrun or Jane from the Ender's Saga. It was not just one program on one machine, but more than the sum of the processors and storage. Additionally there's always a gap somewhere in the system to spread out to the wider information super highway.

2. Obviously the people running for their lives as the killer robots were dancing around probably made that difficult as well as anyone who would know of that was probably dead. To follow up also I disagree that "most programs have back doors".

3. I don't follow this one, or the use of 'bomgard'. Though the whole point of the 'button push' was to take humans out of the equation.

4. I would counter and say it is plausible with the context of Wargames and EagleEye as counter points.

@finetunewithhammer - I would think the motivations would be that akin to Ultron. Took five minutes on the web to realize there needed to be some extinction. More like 1 minute to view, and four minutes to recoil in horror.
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#4 albert003   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 07:52 AM

All of those are very valid points. I can't remember the name of the AI that was created 9I believe in MIT) that has a womans body. Anyway, I saws in a video on youtube she said the best way to solve over population and humanities problems was to wipe us all out. Makes me very worried with the advancements we are making with IA.
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#5 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 09:24 AM

Fortunately you don't have a lot to worry about there. We're not making advances in AI. We're making lots of advances in sleight-of-hand, but if anyone's making progress towards actually producing an intelligence they're not telling anyone about it.
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#6 ArtificialSoldier   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:16 AM

And some people are talking a lot about it but instead are just making a screensaver.
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#7 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:19 AM

Well, be fair, it's not just a screensaver.


It'll probably also be a very effective space heater.
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#8 modi123_1   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:27 AM

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#9 Martyr2   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:42 PM

View Postalbert003, on 11 April 2021 - 08:33 PM, said:

I was watching terminator 1,2 and 3. I was thinking of a few things that couldve ended the whole thing or prevented it from happening.
1. Skynet becomes 'alive' in Terminator 3. Why didn't anyone just go to the fusebox or the buildings power centre and shut off the power? Skynet didn't have anything other then the flying hunters.
2. On that topic, most programs have a backdoor, why didn't someone in another room enter the software and shut it down. Yes I realise skynet was alive but computers can't calculate every move a human makes which is why humans can beat computer games.
3. Since all of the computers where in a network and possibly bomgard to share files quickly amongst themselves, couldn't someone just press control alt delete to reset skynet?
4. Skynet is software and a virus or a computer can do things with software. It would be impossible for it to launch icbm. considering it takes two people to move the key at the same time.

I realise its a movie but these things always bothered me about the movie.

So now, my next question for all of you guys.... What would you have changed in the series, added or done differently? I'm really interested in knowing.


Ok lets realize something in this scenario...

1. Skynet, or any artificial intelligence of this scale, would be decentralized. If it escapes onto the net, other than shutting of entire net (which would be impossible now a days) it would theoretically be anywhere and no where at once.

2. Don't assume that all devices are going to be connected. They could make machines (drones, robots etc) with their own operating systems and objectives, not connected to a hive mind. Most likely this would be the case with most machines because they wouldn't want any one machine to be captured and use its link to infect the rest.

3. Artificial intelligence is about self improvement at enormous speeds as well as its own consciousness. Because of this rapid speed of learning and calculating outcomes while there is a theory that humans could outthink AI, the longer time goes on the more remote this is going to be. Just think, humans can almost not ever beat computers at Chess because all moves have been calculated and countered. Yes it is still possible, especially if you know how the AI thinks, but rarely will a random person be able to know its thinking and outsmart it once it has learned enough.

4. Given that this AI will surely make these autonomous machines, create a robot, load it with its objective to turn the keys and send it out into the world. It will go and do any physical thing it is programmed to achieve. Not only that, but will have superior strength, resistance, lack of fear and no moral code... it could do anything that a human could do and in most cases more.

Yes, I am a fanboy of this type of movie and if you mix not only this movie with theories from the matrix, Steven Spielberg's movie "AI", I robot, Lawnmower man, Superintelligence starring Melissa McCarthy, Eagleeye, TV Series "NEXT" and others you will quickly see this is all something that can happen if AI is left to its own devices for long enough.

This post has been edited by Martyr2: 12 April 2021 - 12:45 PM

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#10 jon.kiparsky   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 12 April 2021 - 01:56 PM

Quote

Just think, humans can almost not ever beat computers at Chess because all moves have been calculated and countered.

Not actually true. Yes, computers have vast libraries of positions, but the number of possible positions is vastly greater than what is catalogued.

What's more important is that what you're describing is not intelligence. It's leveraging the fact that chess is a tiny universe of discrete possibilities, and that it's small enough that we can just jam most of the interesting stuff into a box and avoid most of the need for intelligence.

This procedure does not cause you any problems if you're trying to compete with a computer in a situation that requires thinking about a novel problem.


This is a category error on a par with confusing a recommendation engine with a book reviewer.
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#11 albert003   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 13 April 2021 - 09:50 AM

You guys gave me a lot to think about, I actually never thought of it that way.

But as an AI (Granted I am not familiar at all with machine language and I am guessing they used it or C++) Someone must have initially put in a bunch of conditions and if statements in the program.

Also I am thinking that back in 1992 we were using windows 3.1 and Microsoftwas creating Windows 95, would skynet have the foresight or ability to create a new os. Granted at the time Windows 3.1 was pretty good, but it had its limitations.
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#12 Martyr2   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 13 April 2021 - 04:01 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 12 April 2021 - 12:56 PM, said:

What's more important is that what you're describing is not intelligence. It's leveraging the fact that chess is a tiny universe of discrete possibilities, and that it's small enough that we can just jam most of the interesting stuff into a box and avoid most of the need for intelligence.


What I am saying is that when you account for the fact that a computer can play out a scenario in a plethora of ways and account for every possible conceivable counter mixed with the intelligence to know what would and wouldn't work with past experience, you inevitably reach a being that far outweighs humans. What do you think we do? We take our limited experiences, a subset of all possibilities, and we apply what we know of others and our past to hedge our bets on the future outcome.

By all means AI would be unstoppable once it reaches the point, to us, would be unfathomable resources and the ability to explore possibilities much faster than us. I mean can you absolutely say with 100% certainty that it will out think us? No... but it would be to such a degree that you might as well say it is 100% certainty. I mean you can believe all you want that we would have a shot, but I can tell you for fact that given enough iterations, we would have no shot.

I mean to think otherwise is just ignoring the obvious.

This post has been edited by Martyr2: 13 April 2021 - 04:06 PM

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#13 ArtificialSoldier   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 13 April 2021 - 04:10 PM

I don't think we can stop Skynet. If we ever develop an actual AI, and try to use it to solve actual problems, it's probably going to figure out pretty quickly that the obvious solution to many problems is to get rid of people. We're going to have to try to convince an AI that people have a right to be here, that it should follow our laws, and then hope it doesn't change its mind.
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#14 NeoTifa   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 14 April 2021 - 12:57 PM

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I think we good.
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#15 Skydiver   User is offline

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Re: Terminator best way to stop skynet

Posted 15 April 2021 - 04:03 AM

If that cat had a Maine coons tail, the AI would be correct: Maine coons are dogs trapped in a cats body.
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