[Reverand Dave]

Likely the same reason that people can't accept that life truly is meaningless and random.

[KYA]

Wow you sure cheered me up today. </sarcasm>

[WolfCoder]

I don't think life is meaningless or random. Life is a rare and wonderful occurrence in this universe, it's very hard to come by. So long as you enjoy life in whatever way you see fit (even though you could be a psycho killer or a simple predator animal), at least you enjoyed this rare opportunity you were given. Also, if you do not enjoy your life, at least you are capable of feeling anything at all.

KYA, on 22 Oct, 2008 - 08:04 PM, said:

supersloth, on 22 Oct, 2008 - 04:31 PM, said:

science doesn't disprove god, god doesn't disprove science.

QFT. Both can exist. Why do people have such a hard time with that?

The idea of where both actually do exist could only mean the nature of such a being(s) called "God" being possible to be understood through advanced physics. Until then, you are going to have to accept the fact that it is called faith for a reason. You're just going to have to accept the fact that what you personally feel is all you have, and I sure hope it is all you need is to feel for yourself just what is around you in this world.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 23 October 2008 - 09:42 PM

[KYA]

The circulatory system didn't just decide to come into existence on its own. At what point in its day did a single cell amoeba decide to become a more complicated organism? Was it between lunch and rush hour?

Shit just doesn't come into its own for no reason. Science confirms this.

We as a species, seem to have this insatiable desire to figure out how everything works. To some extent we have been quite successful, but still have much more to discover.

This post has been edited by KYA: 23 October 2008 - 10:00 PM

[OliveOyl3471]

Quote

The circulatory system didn't just decide to come into existence on its own. At what point in its day did a single cell amoeba decide to become a more complicated organism?

Shit just doesn't come into its own for no reason. Science confirms this.

A better question is this:
At what point did life begin? I mean, one <smallest unit of time> no life existed, and then in the next <same unit> life did?
We all know how that just happens...all the time. Yep. No life--->Life. Just like that.

I think it takes more faith to believe that it could happen that way than it does to believe that God created all living things.
At least there is a logical answer if you believe in God. So we don't understand Him, but at least we have an explanation of how life could possibly begin.
We don't understand how He could have always existed, because we ourselves have not always existed. But just because we don't understand it that doesn't make it untrue or impossible.

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 24 October 2008 - 05:46 AM

[Ivandreamincode00]

My two cents on religion, spirituality, and the existence of god, in as few words as possible...

RELIGION
Organized religion has nothing to do with spirituality or the existence of god. Just like any other hierarchical societal construct it exists solely to serve the whims of those at the top. Organized religion is, at its best, an accidental byproduct of spirituality and at its worst, an attempt to control and subdue people. They are based upon ludicrous rituals that exist now simply because they have survived until now; put simply, they are in practice because of tradition.

SPIRITUALITY
Spirituality is, in my humble opinion, for the weak minded. They clasp to spirituality and the belief in an orderly universe simply because it comforts them. It becomes an infinite source of strength to some people and it is because of that fact that I am envious of spiritual people. No matter what they endure, they are able to persevere simply because of this belief in a higher order. This is where the divide between religion and spirituality becomes fuzzy. Some holy men/women, although I disagree with their practices and traditions, are a great inspiration to me because they are so spiritual that they will never truly waver from their path in life. They are dedicated to what they believe is a higher purpose and I have to respect that. Like I said, I'm sometimes envious of these people.

THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
There is no proof either way. End of story. As much as I'd like to deny it, I can't. As much as others would like to prove it, they can't. I think the real question is, do you live life like their is a god or there is no god? Do you worry about morals and ethics because a big invisible man in the sky, who loves you beyond all comprehension, told you to? Or do you worry about morals and ethics because regardless of whether god exists or not, if everyone tried to be better to one another, the world would be a better place...Of course then you have to decide who's code of conduct is 'right.' But that's a topic for another forum post.

[homemade-jam]

Science disproves most if not all of the arguments that believers put forward for the existence of god - creationism etc.

This post has been edited by homemade-jam: 24 October 2008 - 01:34 PM

[KYA]

Science disproves science as well.

[supersloth]

WolfCoder, on 23 Oct, 2008 - 10:36 PM, said:

I don't think life is meaningless or random. Life is a rare and wonderful occurrence in this universe, it's very hard to come by. So long as you enjoy life in whatever way you see fit (even though you could be a psycho killer or a simple predator animal), at least you enjoyed this rare opportunity you were given. Also, if you do not enjoy your life, at least you are capable of feeling anything at all.

KYA, on 22 Oct, 2008 - 08:04 PM, said:

supersloth, on 22 Oct, 2008 - 04:31 PM, said:

science doesn't disprove god, god doesn't disprove science.

QFT. Both can exist. Why do people have such a hard time with that?

The idea of where both actually do exist could only mean the nature of such a being(s) called "God" being possible to be understood through advanced physics. Until then, you are going to have to accept the fact that it is called faith for a reason. You're just going to have to accept the fact that what you personally feel is all you have, and I sure hope it is all you need is to feel for yourself just what is around you in this world.

i did not say both exist at the same time, though that MAY be true, i simply said one does not DISPROVE the other. it's impossible for a faith to disprove science or a science to disprove faith, that comes with the territory of each.

[absynthe]

Ya know, my father is a minister. I was brought up in church until I was 18, I guess you could say force fed religion until then. I guess I can argue both sides:

I have seen evidence of direct proof of God in the speaking of tongues. I visited many churches all around the world and when someone spoke in tongues it always sounded the exact same way. I didnt understand any of it of course and still dont but I know that it sounded like a language and it had to be universal in the fact that these people could not have known each other at all. It was physically impossible for them to have any contact, but all the same the language was the same whenever they got themselves into that state.

Now as for the other side:

I have seen alot of bad shit happen that you cant explain in a world of a supposed loving God. I've had 1 fiance' and 2 close friends die within 2 months of each other. I've held and watched be buried not to long after an infant who I loved like a little sister. I've been to parts of Africa and Ecuador and seen some of the crazy conditions there. All of us have our stories, I could go on...

But Ill just say instead that I think that if God is out there he has turned his back on our little planet. I believe this sincerely. I think that he may be tending to one of the countless other planets out there (Hubble Deep Space Picture). Maybe he is starting over again and again with Adam and Eve to see what happens differently. Maybe he has been doing that forever and we are just 1 in a billion billion attempts.

I still see evidence of Supreme Design in each and every flower around me.

[nirvanarupali]

WolfCoder, on 24 Oct, 2008 - 12:36 PM, said:

The idea of where both actually do exist could only mean the nature of such a being(s) called "God" being possible to be understood through advanced physics.

No, It's METAPHYSICS, if you have a deep knowledge on this then you will understand. Much more importantly under Metaphysics there is Theodicy-The study of the supreme being, as I said earlier on this thread.

This is the limitation of the particular sciences. But take note particular sciences still belong to the umbrella of Philosophy.


What I noticed to the replies is just a personal views and opinions, but did not create logical and metaphysical explanation to the matter.

Hence, no one could destroy the arguments of the 5 ways which I have presented earlier.

[macC++a]

you can make no decision about something whilst you have no idea about the truth of it

A grounding in all the sciences including metaphysics was once standard in a good education. If I could deposit into your brain in an instant what you have missed out on it would flip your lid.

This post has been edited by macC++a: 25 October 2008 - 06:39 AM

[WolfCoder]

nirvanarupali, on 25 Oct, 2008 - 06:55 AM, said:

...
Hence, no one could destroy the arguments of the 5 ways which I have presented earlier.

You've wasted so much time on what you could have spent eating ice cream, enjoying life, drinking whiskey (if you don't mind alcohol), and having fun. Right now I don't care to flip back pages on your arguments because it's a waste of my time to listen to an arrogant philosopher.

nirvanarupali, on 25 Oct, 2008 - 06:55 AM, said:

...
What I noticed to the replies is just a personal views and opinions, but did not create logical and metaphysical explanation to the matter.
...

Your "logical explanation" is just your own opinion that you have decided to call "fact". Don't worry, opinions and personal views are the point of this thread.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 25 October 2008 - 10:13 AM

[KYA]

But you don't mind "wasting" time arguing on a forum?

[homemade-jam]

Never!