[WolfCoder]

KYA, on 25 Oct, 2008 - 12:36 PM, said:

But you don't mind "wasting" time arguing on a forum?

Of course I don't mind~ Just for you

[nirvanarupali]

@ macC++a:
@ WolfCoder :

Fallacy of argumentum ad hominem. "You are attacking the person not the argument."



You will not arrive the truth if you only use fallacies.

[macC++a]

Sorry nirvanarupali, I was not directing my former comment to the post above it but to the general commentors who have merely regurgitated the contemporary anti christian sentiment.
It is my opinion that every person who emphatically states a non belief in God or has randomly picked some other wacky scheme of the universe has a much greater deal of faith than me. I simply followed the progress of human thought and who said what to finally be convinced by intellect and reason of the truths of christianity. Science is not separate from religion, it is a part of it and is its biggest ally! It certainly cannot be divorced from it. This would be like trying to divorce your parents. No matter how hard you try and distance yourself from them, the fact still remains.
Science, and western civilisation for that matter, owes its coming of age and great modern power to christianity. People forget where the great institutions and arts come from. Do a little research, look back past the radical wave of thought which came out of europe leading to our largely Kantian era which is where a lot of confusion originated from. Like I stated earlier many or most of us have been robbed by the previous couple of generations, of some of the greatest scientific thought of history. C'mon lets face it, this was, and still is, done to ease the conscience. We all know god exists, ask any paramedic, emergency room nurse, priest etc you name it, they have seen it, a large number believe. If you find out you are about to die or are dying you will start to pray and get faith in a real hurry. That is a fact. A priest working regularly with the dying once told me recently that he is still amazed at how the most hardened anti christian people want to make peace with God as they are dying. They get absolutely desparate. Some totally blown away stories too. He says it is very very rare that someone rejects faith in the end. He says also that when they do it is a very forboding atmosphere surrounding the death and usually an indicator of some deep family trauma or resentment. It always comes out at this time.

So the fact is, a majority of you will pray to God before the end.

[homemade-jam]

So what happens when religion contadicts science?

[KYA]

If you'd give me a specific example I could better answer your question.

[WolfCoder]

@macC++a
If I were dying I sure wouldn't suddenly become a christian or pray to any God. These bodies don't last forever, you know, and they break very easily. I lack the type of fear of death that a typical religious person would have. I am not an atheist though, but I don't really care to think about if there is a god or not because what is more important is what I feel. It just happens to be nice that what I consider things I do that feel great and right aren't regarded as homicidal or dangerous to the society, all the better~!

@

nirvanarupali, on 26 Oct, 2008 - 06:40 PM, said:

...
"You are attacking the person not the argument."
...

Duh, Mr. thinks he understands everything philosopher. The only reason I'm bothering to respond to your statements is because there's only a few minutes before my next class and I am eating my lunch.

[KYA]

Bad generalization. It's usually the opposite. Religious people don't necessarily fear death. One could say all fear the unknown.

[WolfCoder]

Well they come up with something to explain what happens when you die so they can be comfortable, kind of the whole point in having faith in something. If there wasn't a fear of the unknown after death, I'm not sure the ideas of heaven and hell would have been thought of. That's why I just say "screw it" and there's no reason for me to worry about things that I can't avoid.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 29 October 2008 - 03:21 PM

[macC++a]

homemade-jam, on 28 Oct, 2008 - 11:47 PM, said:

So what happens when religion contadicts science?

That is a contradiction in itself. It can only be the other way round! Even if it did work the other way round as in a Kantian universe, what do you think christian religion has contradicted scientific fact on?

Quote

If I were dying I sure wouldn't suddenly become a christian or pray to any God. These bodies don't last forever, you know, and they break very easily. I lack the type of fear of death that a typical religious person would have. I am not an atheist though, but I don't really care to think about if there is a god or not because what is more important is what I feel. It just happens to be nice that what I consider things I do that feel great and right aren't regarded as homicidal or dangerous to the society, all the better~!

Well by all accounts if you were suddenly about to die it is a statistical reality that you will start praying to God. A bit like saying you will go into battle and not be afraid. Who are you kidding. Everyone does except for the insane. Why do you think soldiers are gripped with fear in battle? It's because they know in their heart that they may meet their maker at any time. Now these guys are the toughest and most pyscologically hardened fella's around. They will nearly all say a prayer before battle, during battle and for those who don't come back from battles. Ask a military friend. It is a fact that the military knows they must supply chaplains for their armed forces or the morale of soldiers vanishes. Practising christians are known to suffer far less anxiety over death when they know they are prepared. This is because they know it in their heart, not because they have good positive reinforcement from mamma's bible stories!

The, 'its all about what you feel' is what you have been trained to say by our new western philosphies. If that was what you truly believed after considering all the facts then I'd say fair enough. What I am saying, is that you need to do yourself a favour and read up on some history and realise that our parents generation, and the baby boomers rejected all known philosphy and adopted that of some radical modern thinkers from Europe. These guys were brought up on a diet of Kantian and Marxist philosophy which has largely guided the thought of academics since.Todays leading baton runner of this train of thought is Jurgen Habermas. This entire thread is littered with the illogical arguments of these thinkers. You did not come up with your ideas on the world yourself did you? Neither did I. Very few do. So whose ideas are you spruking? You owe it to yourself to find out. There is more, a heap more I can absolutely assure you.

This post has been edited by macC++a: 30 October 2008 - 07:57 AM

[WolfCoder]

I have no idea where my ideas come from. Some of them are very strange. I don't know and I don't care. I know someone who's last words were "I've always liked hummingbirds" as a cancer finished his life off. Whether I go calmly or my life is ripped from me as I feel horror, I can honestly say God would be the last thing on my mind- if at all.

macC++a, on 30 Oct, 2008 - 08:48 AM, said:

...
Well by all accounts if you were suddenly about to die it is a statistical reality that you will start praying to God.
...

I'm not a statistical reality.

macC++a, on 30 Oct, 2008 - 08:48 AM, said:

...
The, 'its all about what you feel' is what you have been trained to say by our new western philosphies.
...

Are you for real?

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 30 October 2008 - 09:21 AM

[macC++a]

WolfCoder, on 31 Oct, 2008 - 03:14 AM, said:

I have no idea where my ideas come from. Some of them are very strange. I don't know and I don't care.

Ah well, if you don't know whos ideas have been planted in your head and even though you recognise they are very strange (in other words odd, unusual, outlandish, caotic, weird etc) but you truly don't care then thats that.

[GWatt]

macC++a, on 30 Oct, 2008 - 10:48 AM, said:

homemade-jam, on 28 Oct, 2008 - 11:47 PM, said:

So what happens when religion contadicts science?

That is a contradiction in itself. It can only be the other way round! Even if it did work the other way round as in a Kantian universe, what do you think christian religion has contradicted scientific fact on?

If science can contradict religion why can't religion contradict science?

macC++a, on 30 Oct, 2008 - 10:48 AM, said:

Quote

If I were dying I sure wouldn't suddenly become a christian or pray to any God. These bodies don't last forever, you know, and they break very easily. I lack the type of fear of death that a typical religious person would have. I am not an atheist though, but I don't really care to think about if there is a god or not because what is more important is what I feel. It just happens to be nice that what I consider things I do that feel great and right aren't regarded as homicidal or dangerous to the society, all the better~!

Well by all accounts if you were suddenly about to die it is a statistical reality that you will start praying to God

Statistical probability. Statistics does not prove/disprove anything. In this case statistics shows (or so you claim) that most of the subjects in this study prayed to god on their deathbed.

macC++a, on 30 Oct, 2008 - 10:48 AM, said:

These guys were brought up on a diet of Kantian and Marxist philosophy which has largely guided the thought of academics since.Todays leading baton runner of this train of thought is Jurgen Habermas. This entire thread is littered with the illogical arguments of these thinkers.

Care to elaborate on what is so illogical?

[absynthe]

One of the wildest stories I ever heard was from one of my co workers. She had troubles in her teens with drugs and explained to me that one awful day she overdosed. She said that on the way to the hospital she died. I watched her tell this story and as she went on her eyes watered over and her voice cracked alot. She said when she looked around her she was in this beautiful field, with the greenest grass she had ever seen. She said that she looked over and saw a dog she had when she was a little girl come running towards her. At this time she started crying when she was talking to me about it. She said that she looked down at the instant the dog lept up into her arms. She told me it was the only moment in her life she felt truely happy, ecstatic she said. She said she opened her eyes to look at her dog and it turned into a bunch of maggots...no kidding. Everything began to shrivel and die around her she said...and then they got her back.

Now I would have been skeptical but I watched as she told me about it and I knew it was true. She had seen what she told me.

This post has been edited by absynthe: 30 October 2008 - 06:23 PM

[KYA]

That story had absolutely nothing to do with this topic

[ghqwerty]

god is based on faith, god quotes through jesus that he is a being of faith. if he is fait then he can not be proved or else he would cause a paradox and cause him to ceace to exist meaning we cant find proof of his existance. for example

if you saw a car in front of you on your way to work would you believe it was there or know it was there ?
answer is you would know it was there
if someone gave you solid proof of gods existance then you would know he is there not believe he is there which means god would contradict himself and cause a paradox.

this means that god is a being of faith so no god is not REAL but he does exist

This post has been edited by ghqwerty: 01 November 2008 - 01:53 PM