[ludjer]

a famous person once told me said:

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They believe the bible is the exact word of God - Then they change the bible! Pretty presumptuous, hu huh? "I think what God meant to say..."

Religion is a crutch for the weak minded.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do..And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you.

Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?

Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one.

You keep believing, I'll keep evolving

If God exists, I hope he has a good excuse

Blasphemy is a victimless crime

Religion serves men as blinders serve horses.

i got it of someones profile and i asked where he got it and he said he got it from someone else

[nirvanarupali]

In philosophy there are two kinds of questioning.

1.) You ask because you want to know.
2.) You ask for the sake of arguments.

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If science can contradict religion why can't religion contradict science?

In this question, i presume that it belongs to number 2. I answer this for the sake of argument.

Religion uses faith and reason, and nothing more. (See Fedis et Ratio by Pope John Paul II)

There are so many things that science cannot answers, but can be answered only by using reason and faith. That is the why before you can study Theology you must take Philosophy first.

Science on the other hand, (all particular sciences) is using empirical datas. Meaning peceived only by our five external senses. Because of this it is imperative that science presents facts without speculating it, without using long, long syllogism to prove it, although you need some kind of experiments.

But science has limitations, as I said. Science cannot answer "where all things came from?" What we can get is, from "Big Bang". But where that gases and energies in big bang came from? See, that is the limitation of science. Since science is under the umbrella of philosophy, philosophy take cares of it. Cosmology is a branch of philosophy that deals about nature.

Or with use your faith........?

This post has been edited by nirvanarupali: 03 November 2008 - 06:14 AM

[Thorian]

subwayheaven, on 7 Aug, 2008 - 12:32 AM, said:

...Now I simply sit back, and watch my soon to be largest topic ever made.

Which one?

[Andora]

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That is a contradiction in itself. It can only be the other way round! Even if it did work the other way round as in a Kantian universe, what do you think christian religion has contradicted scientific fact on?

The idea of contradicting science, in itself, is a contradiction.

Science, by definition, is proven facts.
Religion is a collection of ideas used to answer that which can't be answered by science.

There have been MANY times throughout history that religion (namely the catholic church) has tried to fight science, the idea that the earth is the center of the solar system, and evolution are great examples.

Scientists were able to tell by tracking the stars that the earth was orbiting the sun. But religious beliefs fought that and centuries of technological advancement were halted.

The theory of evolution, is well established. It is only a matter of time before religions must adapt to that. It appears that intelligent design will become popular quite soon.

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But science has limitations, as I said. Science cannot answer "where all things came from?" What we can get is, from "Big Bang". But where that gases and energies in big bang came from? See, that is the limitation of science. Since science is under the umbrella of philosophy, philosophy take cares of it. Cosmology is a branch of philosophy that deals about nature.

I agree on most points, however I believe that science will eventually be able to answer those questions as well. There is a current idea that some sort of collision between different universes created the big bang.

-Just food for thought.

[homemade-jam]

In reply to abysnthe's story: Yeah but she was also high as a kite at the time due to all the drugs

[macC++a]

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The idea of contradicting science, in itself, is a contradiction.

Science, by definition, is proven facts.
Religion is a collection of ideas used to answer that which can't be answered by science.

There have been MANY times throughout history that religion (namely the catholic church) has tried to fight science, the idea that the earth is the center of the solar system, and evolution are great examples.

Scientists were able to tell by tracking the stars that the earth was orbiting the sun. But religious beliefs fought that and centuries of technological advancement were halted.

The theory of evolution, is well established. It is only a matter of time before religions must adapt to that. It appears that intelligent design will become popular quite soon.

Science by definition is simply the seeking to know things by their causes and by observing demonstrations.

Religion is the recognition of a Divine being behind the things of nature and supernature. The word religion is tied up with the voluntary binding of oneself to this divine being.

Astronomers from the earliest times thought what they did from scientific error. Whether they were athiest, pagan or otherwise. Perfect example.

Evolution is nothing more than a widely spread and accepted THEORY. Just like the one held in your example above. Know the difference. I don't suppose you know that at the highest levels of scientific study, evolution as you know it is being abandoned by the top professors and researchers? It was thought by now with advances in technology and research method, that clear evidence would be found for evolution of species. They have found not one scrap, not one fossil, not one geological clue. Every single aspect of the theory is conjecture and assumption and true scientists with a pure desire to know the facts know it. They know it can not be this way if it were true. They are heading down different paths now. Do some research yourself.
The world of astronomy is turned upside down now too. Modern discoveries are blowing their minds. The top astronomers do not know what to think. They say they have had to throw many previously sound theories out the window!

This is the nature of science. And always will be.

Your slurs on the Catholic Church are ludicrous. They are responsible for the great flowering of science and launched the advances of modern civilisation as we know it. You enjoy a Christian democracy and the free ability to attend university and learn one of the sciences because of the Catholic Church and then later on some of the other christian churches. No historian denys this.

Like I asked earlier, find one thing truly proven by science that is in opposition to Catholic teaching. You won't find one. You only believe without thinking it through, that there must be.

[GWatt]

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Religion is the recognition of a Divine being behind the things of nature and supernature. The word religion is tied up with the voluntary binding of oneself to this divine being.

Actually religion is about following someone else's teachings/philosophies/rules. Accepting a divine being as creator is one facet of spirituality.

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Astronomers from the earliest times thought what they did from scientific error. Whether they were athiest, pagan or otherwise. Perfect example.

If you're referring to a geocentric model, then yes, that's true. However, when Copernicus and Galileo both attempted to convince everyone that a heliocentric model makes more sense the Church forcefully stopped them.

Evolution is a theory. It remains a better theory than ID or creationism.

And could you please be a little more specific on what mind blowing things astronomers have seen?

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This is the nature of science. And always will be.

You're absolutely correct. Science is all about taking data and attempting to determine the rules governing us. Sometimes we'll be wrong. However, acknowledging that we don't know something is the first step towards a better understanding.

[Andora]

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Astronomers from the earliest times thought what they did from scientific error. Whether they were athiest, pagan or otherwise. Perfect example.

Are you seriously suggesting that the earth is the center of the solar system? I think we have proven pretty clearly that they did not make an error.

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Religion is the recognition of a Divine being behind the things of nature and supernature. The word religion is tied up with the voluntary binding of oneself to this divine being.

For christians, this is probably true. But I am referring to religions in general.

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Evolution is nothing more than a widely spread and accepted THEORY.

I think you need to learn the definition of theory. A theory is a widely accepted belief that a select few refuse to believe in. I don't think you are going to try to disprove the theory of relativity(gravity). Are you?
The American Heritage Dictionary:

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Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

I will not dispute that science is constantly changing. Just a few months ago it was announced that our galaxy is actually a barred spiral rather than the classic spiral. Such things happen when new information is available. I think this is a strength of science, it will never hold on to a belief when all the proof points the other way.

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Your slurs on the Catholic Church are ludicrous.

I'll try not to go down this path, simply because nobody will be able to change anyone's beliefs there.

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You enjoy a Christian democracy...

By the way you spell civiliZation, you are probably not from the States. But if I live under a christian democracy, I'm leaving for the closest dictatorship. Separation of church and state is hugely important. Partly why I have a problem with republicans, but that's another story.

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...the free ability to attend university...

i get to attend a university because I'm giving them cold hard cash. I don't understand what you are saying, but it sounds incorrect. Perhaps you could clarify.

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Like I asked earlier, find one thing truly proven by science that is in opposition to Catholic teaching. You won't find one. You only believe without thinking it through, that there must be.

1. Galileo proved the earth orbited the sun.
2. It is blatantly obvious that he was correct.
3. The catholic church suppressed this knowledge because of their beliefs.
4. What more could I say to prove this to you?


I think the underlying issue here is that you accept the bible's text as proof that overrides scientific proof. And you have been given a different (I believe false) impression of the reputability of science.
I see the bible as a set of ideals intended to get large amounts of people to live a profitable life. I decided not to follow them, but I will live a profitable life.

[KYA]

Darwin himself disproved his theory; have you read his book?

Also you be a Christian and know that the Earth is billions of years old. What's the problem?

This post has been edited by KYA: 09 November 2008 - 01:24 PM

[Andora]

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Darwin himself disproved his theory; have you read his book?

I have it right here:  Origin_of_Species.pdf (599.09K)
Number of downloads: 28 gimme a page number. I'd love to see this.

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Also you be a Christian and know that the Earth is billions of years old. What's the problem?

Doesn't the church claim that the earth was created in 7 days a few thousand years ago?

[KYA]

No. God created everything in 7 days. It does not specify how long ago and it is really irrelevant.

Furthermore, how long is a day to God? Does that matter? To me? Not really.

That pdf doesn't have page #'s. Chapter 14

This post has been edited by KYA: 09 November 2008 - 05:02 PM

[GWatt]

No, the official interpretation of the bible by the catholic church is that the creation myths (because there are multiple ones in the bible), and other stories should not be taken literally but instead the meaning behind the stories should be accepted as truth. So, the basic idea behind the creation myths in bible is that god created the universe. You have to interpret each story in accordance to how the authors would have. And remember, the people, several thousand years ago that these stories were first told, did not have a concept of large numbers like we did. The number 7 could well have been allegorical for infinite.

[KYA]

Just for clarification, the catholic church's stance on an issue is not representative of all of Christianity. just fyi

[GWatt]

Since the bible was written by men you can't take it literally. (jab at 7 days)

[KYA]

I think we agree on that point.