[KYA]

WOW! I for one am glad the House did not pass the bailout plan. Rough times will be ahead for sure, but hopefully people will be held accountable for their actions.

discuss?

[MarkoDaGeek]

The bailout plan would have worked, but it's only a band-aid that would dig us into a deeper hole in the end.

Although it would have been amusing to be alive when the US transformed into a Socialist society.

[modi123_1]

I almost cried.

This is not going to be fun.

Love affair with the concepts of free market and what not are great when times are good.. but it's hard to feed a family on ephemeral notions.

[MarkoDaGeek]

The whole 'holding people responsible' is a bunch of McCain time-filling BS.

Holding people accountable isn't going to fix anything unless we can sell said-people for billions and trillions of dollars to countries we haven't already borrowed a 10th of the world's economy from.

Any way you look at it we're screwed and the sub-prime crisis is only a small part of it's cause.

[girasquid]

With the stock market drops today and the percentage of my total assets that are on the stock market...all told, my total assets dropped 4% in value today alone.

=/

[KYA]

MarkoDaGeek, on 29 Sep, 2008 - 02:38 PM, said:

Any way you look at it we're screwed and the sub-prime crisis is only a small part of it's cause.

Yup.

[supersloth]

wallstreet% sudo reboot

i'm personally pretty happy it didn't pass. fuck 'em.

[KYA]

Feel free to flame me, but I think letting the market take its course would be the best long term option. Let capitalism commence.

[capty99]

a proposed $700 billion dollar package = about 505 trillion when the government is done with it.

Quote

The whole 'holding people responsible' is a bunch of McCain time-filling BS.

i disagree... he was the one trying to push it through.

it isn't holding individual people responsibile... its holding the lenders responsible.

yes, people are stupid to outstretch their wallets, but like you said, we can't get rid of all of the idiots. its the lenders who decide to lend to a B- or some shit and then ask the government for money when their lendees default.

i am rejoicing considering it would have been a $2,600 tax on me, and as a college student who has so far stayed within their means... i don't need that bull shit.

it also irks the fuck out of me that some company that is going under right now was bonusing the bosses last year in the double digit millions just to start..... even as their business tanked like super in a bar full of hot chicks.

[supersloth]

and that is a wicked hard tank.

the bail out is pretty much socialism for the rich, it's a bandage, i'd rather just let those institutions take the hits hard now and build up from it (and yes i realize that's a pretty simple approach to it now and that it's a lot more complicated than that, i'm generalizing. but seriously, fuck em.)

[Programmist]

I was in the job market in 2001 when the bottom fell out the first time. Ok, show of hands...How many of you were were laid off as a result? How many of you were still living with your parents? I, for one, spent months in vain trying to find a decent job then months trying to find any job. I will never forget what it was like to wish I had money to buy a f***ing carton of milk. I just want to inject some reality into a conversation - many of whose participants, I fear, have never experienced true economic hardship due to a free market "correction."

Correction sounds so benign doesn't it? It almost sounds like something that occurs naturally. The problem is that, the free market is not free. It is manipulated by the few people with enough understanding and influence to do so and get away with it. These are the people that we entrust with our money because we're too busy in our own careers to become investment experts to that level. Google John Paulson. He created the technique which has recently gotten lots of notoriety (short selling) wherein he basically bets that you will fail. Someone with that much knowledge and insight into the market made billions of dollars on your losses. Oh yeah, and he was also the manager of a large hedge fund. I'm sure there was never a conflict of interest there. My point is, the only way a truly free market can exist is if everyone becomes financial experts and manages their own money, or if the people who manage the money can be trusted 100% to do the right thing for their client before themselves. Those two things will never happen, so we need oversight. It sucks but it's true. People cannot be trusted. Left to their own devices they will tend toward corruption.

As I was saying, there is something to be said for a laissez-faire approach to the free market, but in this case the the events that got us where we are were not a result of a truly free market, so why should we look to the free market for the solution? Why should we assume that the market will correct itself after it has been so badly manipulated and abused?

No...I'm afraid not doing something is a huge mistake. Maybe that plan was not the solution, but doing nothing is not either. Economic theory means exactly squat when you're hungry, on the brink of being evicted, and get up every day looking for any work. Yes it was that bad at one point. And the market just dropped more than it did back then. Anyone remember the last time a bank as large as Washington Mutual failed? No you don't because it has never happened.

But I'm sure our legislators have solid reasons for voting "no", right? Surely they can explain themselves using terms us "plebs" can understand.

Quote

Republicans blamed Pelosi's scathing speech near the close of the debate _ which attacked Bush's economic policies and a "right-wing ideology of anything goes, no supervision, no discipline, no regulation" of financial markets _ for the vote's failure.

"We could have gotten there today had it not been for the partisan speech that the speaker gave on the floor of the House," Minority Leader John Boehner said. Pelosi's words, the Ohio Republican said, "poisoned our conference, caused a number of members that we thought we could get, to go south."

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., the whip, estimated that Pelosi's speech changed the minds of a dozen Republicans who might otherwise have supported the plan.

That was a remarkable accusation by Republicans against Republicans, said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., chairman of the House Financial Services Committee: "Because somebody hurt their feelings, they decided to punish the country."

more

Typical partisan b.s.

[OliveOyl3471]

This is depressing.

I don't know that I even care who's responsible, or to make them accountable. All I want them to do is just FIX IT! Quit fighting over whose fault it was or is, and fix it! If they can't at least try to make it better, then they need to get out of office, I don't care who they are. At least the President was trying to make it better. He knows a lot more about this than I do. What do I know? It may have worked. I'd have to agree, we're screwed, unless they can come up with something else that may fix things.

Yes, rough times may be alright for a single person, but NOT when you have children to raise. Nobody wants rough times for their children. I could handle it if I had to, but not them.

//first serious post in a while.

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 29 September 2008 - 08:24 PM

[capty99]

you can't just flick a switch on the economy.

[OliveOyl3471]

Yes, I guess you're right.