[Fygar]

Alright, so this bailout jargon is the hot topic lately. I would be pleased to know what all you (American and non) think about this decision.

Personally, I think it's a load.... Why is our Government sticking it's neck out for a corporation? I believe that there is a good deal of money involved in the process. I also realize that not bailing out the big guy could result in some relatively unforeseeable future turmoil. At the same time, however, bailing out the big guy could lead to a lot of shite. What's your stance?

The poll is black and white, no middle ground. I understand there are alternative answers, but for the sake of the poll, please lean towards whichever option best suits you and explain your stance. THANKS!

EDIT: crap, forgot the poll shizzle. Supposed to be two options, for or against. SRY THX MODS.

This post has been edited by Fygar: 03 October 2008 - 08:57 PM

[KYA]

They should not have passed the bailout. Either we adhere to free market principles or not. Even if Obama does not win, his mentality that the government needs to regulate nearly everything will dominate public opinion even if it is not the best alternative (like socialized medicine). Let the weak and stupid businesses fail to pave the way for successful, intelligent, non idiotic lending ones.

This was a dumb move by our government.

[Reverand Dave]

The bail out should not have passed, but not for the reasons that KYA suggests. The problem with our economy for a long time has been a lack of regulation which has lead to unscrupulous and predatory lending pratices among other things. The problem with the bail out is that it does NOTHING to address the root of the problem and that is a tremendous and glaring lack of government oversight of these crooks. The economic policies of this administration have been little more than to fool us thinking that the corporate doctor giving us our unwanted rectal exam actually has 3 hands because cause he has 2 on our shoulders.

More to the point though, if the foundation of your house is cracked and it is causing shingles to fall off of your roof, do you fix the cracks in your foundation or just replace the shingles? Our governemnt has just replaced the shingles and kicked more cracks in the foundation. Good job guys! You just made this a problem for the next president. I guess we can just add this to the list of crap that is Dubya's legacy!

[William_Wilson]

I'm not American, but it was quite possibly the worse decision that has been made by the US government in a long time.

This is like putting a band-aid on a broken leg. Sure it looks like a reasonable solution on the surface, but the system underneath is still as broken and decaying.

This doesn't teach the economy how to look after itself, all this does is proclaim that if you get big enough, the government will bail you out if you screw up the country bad enough. With small businesses going under everyday there are hundreds of better options for such money... which by the way, where the hell did they take this money from? What government funded organizations just got the shaft, or did they actually invent this money and devalue the dollar beyond repair?

Assuming the money is legitimately obtained, I can't believe this was ever passed, the difference between the previous rejected offer and this one was so minor that they might as well have passed the last one as the situation presently is exactly the same. With so many debts and reliances on other countries, the money could have been spent decreasing these dependencies, thus making a more self sustainable country, instead of the clearly unreliable and unstable economy that exists.

Basically my opinion is the US made the worst decision ever, and Canada got pwnd.

[supersloth]

against.

[Martyr2]

Well normally I would consider myself in the majority, but as many of you have pointed out that it is wrong for the bailout. Personally I think it is too, but it needed to pass for one reason... to get the economy going again. I think Obama said it best in that if someone's house is on fire, and you know that the person that lives in that house smokes in bed all the time or leaves on a stove, you still put out the fire and then go after the person who set it. Because if you leave the fire going and accuse the man, that fire may soon lead to your house right next door burning.

And while I am all for sticking it to the punks that got greedy and lead to this mess, really the hurt is going to be placed on all the American people. Let me explain...

1) Banks lend back and forth to major investors like countries etc. Because of this credit crunch they can't do it.

2) This means that those major investors can't lend to your employers to make their salaries and operation expenses. This forces employers to cut costs and that means you are out of a job. This is the first way it hits you.

3) Banks lend money directly to you for car loans, house loans, and education loans. No lending means you don't get money when you need to. This is the second way it hits you.

4) Banks also lend money to other people so they can buy your house if you are selling it, your car etc. If they can't get the loan from the bank, they can't then buy stuff from you which you need to sell because you can't get additional money for that major medical operation or whatever. That is the third way it hits you.

I think this bailout should pass just to free up credit, get the system working, then go after and throw ceos in jail as well as anyone else who was greedy in all this.

Plus if the government does this right, they can actually make money for the taxpayers. They have done this before and generated a few hundred million in the past.

I do believe in this second version of the bill where it has a bit of oversight, has accountability rules, has a few time lines, and comes with more FDIC insurance for the average American.

Believe me guys, I feel as you do about getting those freaks who caused all this, but you need the bailout first before you can do that otherwise corporations don't win, small business doesn't win, that guy who wants to buy your house doesn't win, and most of all you don't win. We all lose.

Just so you know already this freeze has caused 1 trillion dollars to be wiped out, several hundred thousand jobs have been lost because employers can't pay their employee salaries and even more is on the way.

[swichnz]

I am another non-American, however even on the other side of the planet we are well aware of this, partly cos by the sound of it most of the mortagages here in New Zealand comes from the US and also because a reasonable amount of our exports are sent to the USA so it will effect but not to the same extent.

In the short run it is a great idea because it will save jobs and all the other b/s.

However after all this is over the guys (and girls) at the top of the companies that caused this will be able to run their companies based on the theory when the going gets tough, get the government. So this will happen again and again until the governments around the world say you have to ride it out on your own like a real free market. After which we will have ups and downs but the ups won't be as high and the lows won't be as low because they will operate on the theory that they have to look after themselves and can't ask for help when they make decisions that don't account for the risk.

[LoveSquid]

Considering the government was already knee-deep in Fanny Mae & Freddie Mac by pushing them to dole out the sub-prime loans to individuals that could not otherwise afford them, I think they had no choice at THIS point. Too late to do anything else. But, I think things need to change from here on out. There needs to be regulations in place to prevent this kind of abuse in the future.

The like of:Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Gregory Meeks and Lacy Gray were fighting regulation up until the bitter end.

This post has been edited by LoveSquid: 14 October 2008 - 07:23 PM

[macosxnerd101]

Before we can judge the bailout, we have to know what has caused THIS recession. The main causes can be assessed as Sub-Prime Lending, Greed/Desire for Immediate Gratification resonant in America today, and oil prices.

During the Clinton administration, lobbyists were using the 'race' card to help minorities get loans via government bills. Clinton acquiesced and passed a bill to do just this: encourage banks to give loans to those who couldn't afford them. This led to the creative financing and sub-prime/variable rate loans which led to a high foreclosue. Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae were affected because of their business. They buy mortgage loans from banks. This allows banks to have money to loan & Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae have a steady stream of income to invest. When they buy these bad mortgages, they lose their income and it hurts banks as well as them. As Martyr2 pointed out, if banks can't loan money, everyone loses. The investors saw this and jumped ship to foreign oil, which caused the price jump. The Middle East wasn't making a ton more on the oil they were selling, but instead were paying the difference between the original price and increased price in profits to the investor. Bush has since popped the oil bubble and investors are learning how to invest in today's current economy: buy low, sell high, repeat (sound familiar, try High School Gov and before).

Now this can only go on for some time before the system degrades irreparably. If this is allowed to happen, it will (and I'm not exaggerating) crash the world's economy. It will start by destroying companies' cash flows, forcing them to lay off. This creates a shortage in consumer spending (wonder why?) and a tax on the government (ironic isn't it?) for welfare and unemployment. This will lead to a great depression worse than the one in the '20s. Since the US is the world's largest consumer(we've gone from a manufacturing economy to a consumer, see the loss. plus if we get into a MAJOR war we'll be depending on China & India to make our weapons), every other nation will be hurting from the lack of spending.

The bailout will not cure the economy, it is not a panacea. However, it should be used as a government LOAN (as in with INTEREST) to these ailing companies until they can get back on their feet and it needs to be government regulated. We can't just hand a blank check to these companies, look at AIG giving millions in bonuses. If the government gets preferred stock as collateral, then it should also get any dividends that may exist as well.

Now don't mistake as wanting to have a $2 billion bailout (2 stimulus packages, yes there will be a 2nd, and then the corporate bailout) on top of a $10 trillion deficit. I simply see no other way. I'm pissed about this because I owe taxes on my investments and I can't vote yet (still a minor), plus my generation will have to fix this. This economic crisis should be a kick in the arse to get back to the ways of our parents and grandparents of saving and working for what we want, not using creative financing for immediate gratification. I'm only 15 but I'm saving for my car and paying for my cell phone. I make my own money and for the most part have the freedom to invest and spend it as I please, though my parents help direct me on large purchases.

Now, as my final statement, we need to thank the person who sparked this crisis: Bill Clinton.