[hawkysu]

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.



--Hawk

[Winstinology]

[runfaster]

OK first expect people to answer this very defensively. Nothing against them, but it will happen.

Second, I kind of agree. I never understood the concept of censorship. If you haven't hit puberty, your parents should decide what you watch/read. Afterwards, what your parents do won't have much effect. I think that you are pretty much shaped during puberty, and have figured out who you are. A movie will not change that. Period.

If you get turned off of religion because of a movie, then you didn't have very strong faith to begin with. Also, I couldn't spot anything in the Golden Compass, while I must admit, the other books do kill "God", literally. However, God is not the one doing the bad things, he is kind of ineffectual and is technically a casualty. His litter is dropped during the fighting, breaking it and the wind blows him away. Metatron is the malevolent force behind the whole thing, and is eventually defeated.

I guess the Christian problem with it is the mortality and vulnerability of God. Christians believe that God is an immortal, all powerful, undying fixture in the universe. The one constant that will never die. The fact that God is basically usurped and eventually dies is probably what the Christian community takes issue with.

I was raised Christian(Catholic in fact), and I still don't see what all the excitement is about. If it is fiction, then it can say what it wants. This may not agree with the accepted content of some groups, however this does not mean it cannot still make it. It just means that people need to decide whether or not to buy/see it.

OK now that my rail on censorship is done...

You are getting into predestination and interpretation of religion, which are touchy subjects.

Quote

For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.

The religions themselves didn't start or cause any wars. It was the people who used the religion as an excuse to get what they wanted. Not sure why it happens, but I blame the hippity-hop music.

[KYA]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 03:50 PM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.

Anyone that says that is retarded in my opinion. I'm Christian and I watch South Park and they mock God sometimes. So what? Anything taken to the extreme is dangerous.


edit:

Quote

If it is fiction, then it can say what it wants.

Nicely said.

This post has been edited by KYA: 03 April 2009 - 04:48 PM

[baavgai]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 04:50 PM, said:

My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.

That's sad. The books were exceptional. The movie was fun. The same can be said for Narnia. Both authors have strong personal beliefs, both keep it out of their kid's books. You will not find the word "God" in either set of works.

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it. Those peculiar specifics, like what movies to see, are rare. That stuff comes from the insecure executors of a religion.

You'll almost always find the most disturbing aspects of a religion are actually found no where in the source material, but in the misrepresentations of those who claim to be speakers of the Truth. In short, the failings of religions are always the failing of man and politics, in the name of religion.

[hawkysu]

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

sorry, too lazy to quote... I still don't get how the fact that even though God will forgive all your sins, you don't get to do any of that stuff without "offending God"

I use my very strong catholic friends as a reference and the have failed to explain it to me.

This post has been edited by hawkysu: 03 April 2009 - 09:41 PM

[KYA]

baavgai, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 05:06 PM, said:

That's sad. The books were exceptional. The movie was fun. The same can be said for Narnia. Both authors have strong personal beliefs, both keep it out of their kid's books. You will not find the word "God" in either set of works.

I heard the CS Lewis originally set out to disprove Christianity, ended up being one and wrote the Narnia books.

[hawkysu]

I heard that books were different versions of several passeges from the Catholic Bible but i had never heard that.

[baavgai]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 10:38 PM, said:

I still don't get how the fact that even though God will forgive all your sins, you don't get to do any of that stuff without "offending God"

Well, you're getting an interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation, so confusion is expected. Catholicism has it's own set of rules on top of the base set that have grown up over millennia. Here's a fun game; ask a Catholic what happens when you die. If they say something like "go to Heaven" then they weren't paying attention.

Most people don't understand the basic principals of their own faith, they just pick and choose the stuff they want to hear. Arm yourself with knowledge, it makes the arguments more fun.

The short version, God was offended by Adam, who broke the only rule he was given and basically broke paradise. God was going to just scrap the who Universe, because it was busted, through Original Sin. In His compassion, He decided to give His favorite creation (us) a chance to redeem itself. So, Man is tasked with following the rules of God so he will get to be reborn in the perfect creation devoid of flaw, like original sin. The big reset button is called Judgment Day.

The rub, of course, is what constitutes following the rules. For some, just following the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) and kissing a little divine butt is enough. For others, it's far more complex (only fish on Friday? huh?)

KYA, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 10:47 PM, said:

I heard the CS Lewis originally set out to disprove Christianity, ended up being one and wrote the Narnia books.

Not quite, more his faith lapsed.

C.S. Lewis was an exceptional advocate for the church, both because he was brilliant and because he drifted away and came back as a convert. He was talked back by a bunch of Oxford alum. Ain't no one is as sincere as a convert.

He stated unequivocally that Narnia was not meant to push a Christian agenda. While it's impossible not to note the Christian allegory in the books, if you're not looking for, they're just kid's books. When Lewis means to write about religion, it's pretty obvious. "The Great Divorce", btw, is quite interesting.

[Nikhil_07n]

I don't follow any religion.
I know only one fact...

"I live on this planet Earth...."

[computerfox]

i don't agree with the reason why your friend isn't allowed to watch a movie. that sounds like something either a baptist or extremist would say. watching a movie doesn't mean that you would loose your faith. whoever says something like that is obviously unstable in their belief. that's my 2.5 cents.

[firebolt]

hawkysu, on 4 Apr, 2009 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.


--Hawk

Christians CAN watch these movies but they have to be careful not to interpret it the wrong way. Also the Golden compass had a bad ending (i reckon)

[timothybrown]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

I live in South Carolina, which is around the center of the Bible Belt - and there are churches on every street, every quarter mile - of every denomination you can think of. Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist... and especially the infamous Baptist church.

I myself am a secular humanist. I keep to myself my lack of religion, however those few I have told went and told the rest of my school, who send church groups to my house every so often to try and bring me back to church/youth groups.

What they think, is that it was a decision I made overnight - when in reality, it took me over three years to drop religion. I definitely do not plan coming back.

Those who claim to have been "atheist" and then go back to Christianity were never actually atheist in my opinion, they just went around bragging about not having a belief in god when they were actually weak agnostics, and all it took to them was just a bit of fire and brimstone teaching to get them back into the Bible and the rest of the fairy tales that go with it.

[KYA]

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

That's not true. People make it their mission, but it is not a tenet of Christianity.

[hawkysu]

firebolt, on 7 Apr, 2009 - 01:28 AM, said:

hawkysu, on 4 Apr, 2009 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.


--Hawk

Christians CAN watch these movies but they have to be careful not to interpret it the wrong way. Also the Golden compass had a bad ending (i reckon)

Ok, In that case, i believe my friends mom just didn't want her to see the movie.


I still haven't seen the movie btw either... I just don't have time now

This post has been edited by hawkysu: 08 April 2009 - 02:22 PM