[timothybrown]

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 10:22 AM, said:

A real Christian believes the following:

Jesus is the Son of God.
He died for your/our sins, rose, ascended into heaven.
He is the only path [i.e. believe in him] to heaven.
Try to love your neighbor as yourself. [this would be the 'greatest' commandant]


Everything else is superfluous. Good works are great, but not required. To decide to believe in nothing because a few Christians don't "got it" is not a good option.

I did not stop believing because of that. There are many factors that went into my deconversion, from seeing that hell is a childish tactic used to scare weak-minded people into religion, that the bible condones slavery (the religion itself is a form of mental slavery), and that your god is not perfect in any way.

I'm betting ten dollars my old youth minister could out do the god of the bible. God's representation in the bible clearly shows that his wishes, demands, and rules, spout from the wishes, demands, and rules of that era.

Religion is, and has always been, a way to control the masses by use of a primitive form of mind control.

If you were taught something from the day you were born, it would be very difficult to get rid of that belief. Hence it took me a very long time of researching and grief to get over religion.

EDIT: I wonder how a majority of Christian ceremonies spout from several pagan mystery religions... including the fact that Jesus borrows many properties from several "prophets" before him, from other religions.

This post has been edited by timothybrown: 09 April 2009 - 11:30 AM

[KYA]

A more correct statement would be

Organized Religion is, and has always been, a way to control the masses by use of a primitive form of mind control.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I really don't see any mind control going on.

Quote

EDIT: I wonder how a majority of Christian ceremonies spout from several pagan mystery religions... including the fact that Jesus borrows many properties from several "prophets" before him, from other religions.

That's why Easter and Christmas were moved dates, to compete with other pagan holidays of the time. As for Jesus borrowing stuff, how about some examples? If you're referring to Judaism's prophets, then duh!

[timothybrown]

Quote

That's why Easter and Christmas were moved dates, to compete with other pagan holidays of the time. As for Jesus borrowing stuff, how about some examples? If you're referring to Judaism's prophets, then duh!

Sure thing.

http://www.religious...g/chr_jcpa2.htm

Christianity was designed so people could convert to it easier - many people were Pagan at that time, so they simply incorporated many Pagan beliefs into the religion so that it would be of much less hassle to convert.

EDIT: Plus, I don't see how Christians think their invisible man is any more believable than the Islam invisible man, or any other deities... how do you know Buddhism isn't the right belief, how do you know all the others aren't the right belief?

This post has been edited by timothybrown: 09 April 2009 - 12:03 PM

[KYA]

timothybrown, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 12:00 PM, said:

Quote

That's why Easter and Christmas were moved dates, to compete with other pagan holidays of the time. As for Jesus borrowing stuff, how about some examples? If you're referring to Judaism's prophets, then duh!

Sure thing.

http://www.religious...g/chr_jcpa2.htm

Christianity was designed so people could convert to it easier - many people were Pagan at that time, so they simply incorporated many Pagan beliefs into the religion so that it would be of much less hassle to convert.

Let's run with that for a minute. Let's say that's true and there is no God/Jesus. What is the the problem with people believing in something greater then themselves and trying to live in a moral manner?

Pascal's Wager

[baavgai]

You know, on most of the internet bringing up Nazis ends the thread. At DIC, I'm pretty sure is Pascal.

[KYA]

End it in a good or bad way?

Quote

EDIT: Plus, I don't see how Christians think their invisible man is any more believable than the Islam invisible man, or any other deities... how do you know Buddhism isn't the right belief, how do you know all the others aren't the right belief?

Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha all died. Mohammad and Buddha didn't get up.

[baavgai]

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha all died. Mohammad and Buddha didn't get up.

Buddha was reborn. And continues to be. Don't get so stuck up about your zombie Jesus.

[jebevins]

For TIM:
You know you have to be open minded when you are talking about this type of stuff, now I won't judge you for everyone has their own beliefs , however I am a Christian and I can see where your coming from...but it looks like your going by how you precieve christains. Yes many christains interpret different things but you have to understand that in the end, every REAL christain should believe in christ, acept him as the one who died for them, and follow the rules of not killing, lying, stealing and being sinful..Depending on where you grow up you pick up on certain things...for example my friend she only wear skirts no jeans and we are both Christains, she says they believe that women should wear skirts and what not...ok well here you have it, I disagree but I respect her views , at the end of the day God doesn't care about what you wear. It's a respect thing in some cases like some churches want you to be respectful and dress up out of respect and to keep it traditional while others simply want to attract those who haven't found God yet by saying "come as you are".Not just for Christains but muslims, some always keep on their garment while others take theirs off and wear regular street wear...so your point is? Depending on where you are raised they have different ways of doing things, most of it is similar though, but from the outside looking in you may not understand. Besides having a religion helps people cop better and to have a purpose in life..I bet everything I said went in one ear an out the other....

This post has been edited by jebevins: 09 April 2009 - 01:04 PM

[jebevins]

okay the ZOMBIE JESUS THING...UH...YOU CAN GROW UP JUST A LITTLE BIT, THAT WAS CORNEY, JESUS STILL LOVES YOU....

[KYA]

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 01:01 PM, said:

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha all died. Mohammad and Buddha didn't get up.

Buddha was reborn. And continues to be. Don't get so stuck up about your zombie Jesus.

I know wikipedia is not considered a valid resource, but if he was reborn I thought it would have been mentioned there. All I see there is death.

[runfaster]

@ KYA:


The same article says that Buddha basically ascended to a state of perfection. Sound like anyone you know?

[jebevins]

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 12:26 PM, said:

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 01:01 PM, said:

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha all died. Mohammad and Buddha didn't get up.

Buddha was reborn. And continues to be. Don't get so stuck up about your zombie Jesus.

I know wikipedia is not considered a valid resource, but if he was reborn I thought it would have been mentioned there. All I see there is death.

the fact that buddah and muhammad did n't get up, well i guess we see now who is real, don't compare... jesus did so you just can't compare, no disrespect...sorry to who ever i oftended but I must say the truth hurts....

jesus still love you guys

[runfaster]

I agree that it is a bit iffy to compare religions, at least the specifics. Stuff like who, when, where, under what circumstance is variable. I prefer to think about what the person said.

On the reality of Jesus...

If you have never read Terry Pratchett's Small Gods and Hogfather, it goes on about the fact that belief makes things real. Mind you it isn't as deep, but it is true. Matrix is the same, but in a different way. Your body believes that you are actually interacting with objects, so that makes death in the matrix real.

Oops! Forgot the most famous. "There is no spoon."

This post has been edited by runfaster: 09 April 2009 - 02:00 PM

[hawkysu]

Really not wishing to offend anyone but:
Have you ever thought that Jesus was an ancient day practical joker? I mean, what if he and his buddies wrote the Bible to prank a whole bunch of people? And then people were like: "wow, this is awesome. I'm going to worship this" and they did. I mean, what if religion is a huge prank.


I'm going to hide in my bunker now to protect myself from any and all attacks.

[baavgai]

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 02:26 PM, said:

I know wikipedia is not considered a valid resource, but if he was reborn I thought it would have been mentioned there. All I see there is death.

To quote the great Zen master Obi-Wan, "what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

As Jesus was a Jewish protestant, Gautama was a Hindu ( well, Vedic... it's complicated ) protestant. In his culture, reincarnation was a given. To say Gautama made it to parinirvana means he successfully escaped the Karmic wheel, an ultimate reward that should take several arduous life times. Buddha offered freedom to everyone suffering in this cycle.

Buddhism has just as many schools and groups as Christianity, if not more. Some feel he stepped off the wheel on his death, others feel he chose stay behind to help others. The term bodhisattva can refer to a being that can leave, but chooses to guide others on their journey.

That's the basic spiritual part. It's actually possible to be a moral Buddhist, following his insights but not the religious aspects that grew up around them. Buddha was cool with that and said so. On the other hand, there are "pure land" schools that pray to Buddha as savior, near identical to the way that some Christians do.

Many Christians see nihilism in Buddhism. Most of this comes from lack the vocabulary and the actual concepts involved. It's really quite life affirming. If you're curious, look at The Four Noble Truths. The real point is not some future reward, but being happy now.