[baavgai]

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 07:12 PM, said:

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 05:50 PM, said:

The real point is not some future reward, but being happy now.

I would say that is what we all should strive for to some extent. (With people defining "happy" in all sorts of ways nowadays)

Yep. Defining happy, that's a can of worms.

To be honest, Buddhism is actually aiming for peace and freedom from suffering. Happy and sad are extremes. They are also passing and unmaintainable. Being firmly on the middle path means it's harder to be blind sided by the bad stuff and in a better position to appreciate the good stuff.

[mostyfriedman]

for the people who said that Jesus(pbuh) rose from the dead, you do realize that there are evidences in the bible itself that Jesus(pbuh) was never crucified in the first place

[BigAnt]

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you do realize that there are evidences in the bible itself that Jesus(pbuh) was never crucified in the first place

Pics or it didn't happen

[mostyfriedman]

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Pics or it didn't happen tongue.gif

lol, anyway i wouldnt take the bible seriously since it has been altered and contains many contradictions and the original version isnt there anymore(no offense to any christian fellows here)

[KYA]

mostyfriedman, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 07:45 PM, said:

for the people who said that Jesus(pbuh) rose from the dead, you do realize that there are evidences in the bible itself that Jesus(pbuh) was never crucified in the first place

What version are you reading?

[runfaster]

If you mean don't take it as a historical work, I agree. I see it really more as a philosophical work, meant to give people the general idea about how to live their lives.

[mostyfriedman]

Quote

What version are you reading? tongue.gif

its hard to stick to one version since they are all different. but Jesus's sign was to be as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. to know what am talking about, check out the chapter of Jonah in the bible and compare the signs. there are also other points to be noted that prove that jesus was not crucified from the bible itself.

[NeoTifa]

hawkysu, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 03:16 PM, said:

Really not wishing to offend anyone but:
Have you ever thought that Jesus was an ancient day practical joker? I mean, what if he and his buddies wrote the Bible to prank a whole bunch of people? And then people were like: "wow, this is awesome. I'm going to worship this" and they did. I mean, what if religion is a huge prank.


I'm going to hide in my bunker now to protect myself from any and all attacks.

I think Christianity was out and the Bible written before the supposed birth of Jesus. At least, if I remember from my Western Civ class, that was the case. Did you read my post on the first page? It kinda hints to this. ^___^

And as for Jesus zombie,... man I wished the Air Force would let you see pics on their computers.

[mvalor]

[quote name='CodeWomanSRQ' date='9 Apr, 2009 - 07:14 AM' post='599834']

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 06:54 AM, said:

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 01:49 PM, said:

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

Quote

Their are two things that draw people away from God: Religion and the World. I like to say I have a relationship with Christ. A Christian is a better witness by their actions - love, forgiveness, joy, kindness...fruits of the Holy Spirit. I prefer to plant a seed than to throw the entire forest at someone like some Christians do. I would be offended and pissed off too!! But we are not all the same.

It's ok to agree to disagree. I believe that if I plant a seed, God will try to develop it but if the person resists, then the seed dies (poor soil) or if another person can take away that seed (bird stealing seed). Anyway, there are parables in the Gospel about this.

True cases...5 testimonies, one thing in common.
www.morethandreams.tv


Watch the videos!


MV*/

[mvalor]

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 06:04 PM, said:

KYA, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 07:12 PM, said:

baavgai, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 05:50 PM, said:

The real point is not some future reward, but being happy now.

I would say that is what we all should strive for to some extent. (With people defining "happy" in all sorts of ways nowadays)

Yep. Defining happy, that's a can of worms.

To be honest, Buddhism is actually aiming for peace and freedom from suffering. Happy and sad are extremes. They are also passing and unmaintainable. Being firmly on the middle path means it's harder to be blind sided by the bad stuff and in a better position to appreciate the good stuff.

Buddah was a good Phsycologist but still just a man. Mohammed was a merchant who could not even read who had self taught himself to read at a late age and just misquoted Paul's writings when he wrote the Q'ran.
Same with the Catholic church, twisting the truth out of fear of loosing their precious authority by imposing a monopoly on God's word. Just ask William Tyndale about this!

Ask any religios man this: Who do you love the most, God or religion? Buddah cant save you, Mohammed cant save you, nor will religion. Ask any mother, how many times should her child have to do something in order for her to re-gain her mother's love when she has misbehaved? So how many times does the muslim have to pray in their lifetime in order for God to love them? Isn't God our creator? Doesn't that mean that He loves us just as a mother loves her child?

This is because God is not religion, He is above it and has no equal, not even a negative equivalent. He is the God of love and is a supernatural God.

To quote Kenneth Copland:
"Jesus commanded us to operate in the same God kind of faith He has. He also told us that anyone who did it would have the same results. After all, it’s His faith that’s in us. He put it there.

That being the case, how do we deal with the fact that so many Christians are being defeated by sickness, poverty and every other kind of problem? By understanding that those defeats are “fact,” but they are not “truth.”

You see, facts can be changed. Truth can’t. Truth supersedes fact. Spiritual law supersedes natural, physical law.

The law of gravity, for example, is a fact. But there is a higher law than the law of gravity. Those in the aeronautical industry know it as the law of lift. If you do certain things—make an airplane, build the wing right and engine powerful enough and so on—you’ll be able to put the law of lift into motion and make an airplane fly.

How does that happen? Does gravity cease to be a fact? No. The law of lift simply supersedes it.

In the same way, sickness and disease are facts. But those facts can be superseded by the truth in Isaiah 53:5, “With his "Jesus" (foretold 700 years before the incident) stripes we are healed.” It’s a truth that can never be changed. What’s more, if you’ll apply that truth, it will overcome sickness every time! Truth applied changes facts.

Applying it. That’s the key. You can put on your finest traveling clothes, pack your luggage and go sit down in a perfectly good airplane...but you won’t get 6 inches off the ground unless somebody turns on the engines and begins to put the law of lift into motion.

What we need to do is apply our faith just like Jesus did. We need to learn to supersede our natural circumstances by activating the supernatural law of faith. So apply the truth to your facts today. Speak Isaiah 53:5 to your body. Speak Philippians 4:19 to your needs. Speak Isaiah 54:13 over your children. And watch the truth change the facts!"

end quote.
I know about Satan and Hell through the Bible and understand its torments, I learned how satan can easily decieve even the most illuminated philosophers.

He will wisper the word "I" into your thoughts to make YOU think that the concept was your idea, and all through your senses. I know this enemy, he is terrible, unrelenting, nasty, ruthless and will never quit...ever, with the only mission is to destroy mankind at any cost and in any way just to FEED off of man's torments and while in hell and mock God in the process.

I challange you to make a comparison between all religious scriptures like the way I have done. Find the discrepancies, In the end, the Bible will always stand out above all of them. I double dare you on this.
Its a challange...But if you dont..then you have the right to choose your own destiny and eternity is a long...long...LONG time.


MV*/

[runfaster]

I would have watched the videos, but I only know 2 languages: English and German. All of these videos are in some other language. Aside from that, from the captions, those are pretty touching stories. It's nice to hear that people are deciding for themselves what to believe, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or others. What troubles me though is the reactions of these people's communities to their choices. It bothers me that some people feel that you are no longer a person if you decide to change your beliefs.

[baavgai]

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

Buddah cant save you, Mohammed cant save you, nor will religion.

Save one from what, exactly?

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is because God is not religion, He is above it and has no equal...

Sure, we'll go with that. The Jews call him YHVH, the Muslims Allah. If you accept that other religions are talking about the same reality, there are more names as well.

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

the Bible will always stand out above all of them

Huh? We were doing so well. Heading toward a unified monotheistic spirituality... oh well.

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

You see, facts can be changed. Truth can't.

Debate done. Even philosophers need a rational ground to stand on. Truth is essentially unknowable; epistemology 101. You can use facts to attempt to ascertain truth, but you're still guessing.


For some reason, I am reminded of Kant.

Quote

All our knowledge begins with the senses, proceeds then to the understanding, and ends with reason. There is nothing higher than reason. -- Immanuel Kant

The wish to talk to God is absurd. We cannot talk to one we cannot comprehend -- and we cannot comprehend God; we can only believe in Him. -- Immanuel Kant

[mvalor]

baavgai, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 07:12 AM, said:

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

Buddah cant save you, Mohammed cant save you, nor will religion.

Save one from what, exactly?

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is because God is not religion, He is above it and has no equal...

Sure, we'll go with that. The Jews call him YHVH, the Muslims Allah. If you accept that other religions are talking about the same reality, there are more names as well.

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

the Bible will always stand out above all of them

Huh? We were doing so well. Heading toward a unified monotheistic spirituality... oh well.

mvalor, on 10 Apr, 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

You see, facts can be changed. Truth can't.

Debate done. Even philosophers need a rational ground to stand on. Truth is essentially unknowable; epistemology 101. You can use facts to attempt to ascertain truth, but you're still guessing.


For some reason, I am reminded of Kant.

Quote

All our knowledge begins with the senses, proceeds then to the understanding, and ends with reason. There is nothing higher than reason. -- Immanuel Kant

The wish to talk to God is absurd. We cannot talk to one we cannot comprehend -- and we cannot comprehend God; we can only believe in Him. -- Immanuel Kant

Dear Baavgai,
You have a very valid question "Saved from what?"
I am assuming that you are an atheist, if not I apologise for my assumption. However, I have no problem wih this since the actual atheist's real religion (my best description) is human seclurarism by which depends on man's finite knowlwdge and reasoning, which is many cases is impressive enough due to what has been achieved in the last 110 years in this materialistic world. ( I cannot however give it complete credit for everything that has happened). It's good up to a limited point and as I stated, it is only finite and limited. Intellect (knowledge) only puffs up a human, however, no matter what man "knows" about, it is wisdom that builds up his character.

Let me give you an idea what I mean.
Let's say that a brilliant minded 20 year old freshman college student was able to develop a small atomic bomd for homework, (for argument sake only), of course he would be all exited on his results and show his classmates what he had accomplished. Wins a great reputation on campus and makes the front page, now here is the 64 dollar question, how wise would he be able to use his creation?

Another analogy would be a person who lived a steady 9-5 job earning US$24,000.00 for the past 25 years (not uncommon in a lot of folks) and plays and wins the power ball lotto for 14 million net (after the 35% taken out in taxes) in one lump sum. How wise do you think he or she will be able to use that money? Ask anyone, even yourself "What would be the first thing you or that person do would do with all that money?

You see, power and money are just a person's character amplifiers and if used unwisely then they will eventually lead themselves to their own physically and mental destruction. No disipline, no instruction, no training equals no experience which leads to a short lived adventure and later a long time punishment, lament and eventually death.
(example of documented case: Life of Elvis Presley).

Did I mention death? Yes, the great unknown, Ok, here is where I feel you will have the hardest part agreeing, knowing that you consider tangible evidence as fact, but there are people out of different walks of life, locations and time periods who can or have testified events caused by near death experiences and other events that would contradict even the most intelectual person inspite all of his or her so called intelligencia.

Well for a long time, I too was one of these wannabe athiest, but because I kept an open mind, I decided to find out what is behind all of these religious doctrines and see if that were just elaborated set of superstions that were re-arranged in order to have a set of rules placed on them in order to control a population for power and wealth. Yes, that is the case in all religions, until I read the bible.

After comparing, here is an example of what I found out:
The Vedas (hindu) was never supposed to be considered a religion, in turn, if you get rid of all the religions terms, it winds out to be one great manual which describes astrophysical theories, one such as what Mr. E=mc^2 himself decribed in the expanding and contracting universe theory, time travel and yes worm holes (and he never read the book as far as I know). Only to be riddled with superstion and rules as the centuries went by and knowledge degraded to instinct of survival.

Buddah was just a good philosopher, trying to make sense of human nature and try to find a psicological/sociological solution to all of its ills. All other religions that paralled the time frame of hebrew domination of the Israel and before Christ were all based on superstions which were formed out of mis-understandings of natual events, such as sun and moon worship plus others.

Allah, the god that the muslims worship today is not the same as the one Christians worship, but instead originated from Baal which was the actual moon worship dating back to the days of Abraham. Instead, Mohammed, upon a visitation of the Archangel Gabriel, tried writing a near parallel to Pauls teachings from the new testament almost 2 to 300 years after the bible was published, but being an undisiplined merchant in the political arts, he failed to place a safeguard of these writing from other individuals who, at their given time period, having high authority and to make a name for themselves, corrupted the message by adding their 2-1/2 cents of distortion.

The point is, the bible is a more complete book that has actual archeological findings that back it up, explains events of the supernatural in terms close enough for us to undertand and has surpassed the test of time. In short, the Bible is a manual that actually explains spritual laws that govern the natural, the two different and opposing (but not equal) realities for the human spirit whe he or she dies of this temporal world and who is in charge and why is there only one way to be a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven.

To explin all this, yes, it would take me a long time, and I am not that good as a long time sermon writer, however, I challange you or anyone else, regardless of religious ideology to read and study the Bible. Best would be the New Living Translation of both old and new testaments, since the English translation is up to today's standards.
You can find these at

http://www.biblegate...i...Info&vid=51

Start with learning how the Bible was first edited (Council of Constantinopla), after this we can discuss creationism vs. evolution, and I can show you were the bible will actually agree with evolution! Then go on to Proverbs for personal advice and guidance, which are actual written code of conduct and advices from Kings. I can show you why we are God's spliting image and what are our true responsibilities. Yes, you can talk to God, anyone can, Kant was wrong, because he never tried! But, I can show you how.

Want to know who Satan really is, the read John 10:10 and Revelations 12:10, want to know how satan operates in your private and personal life? Read Job Chapter 1 and 2. Want to know how he torments, how he lies, manipulates? I can go on.

All this and more will answer your question, "Saved from what? But you or any one else have to be opened minded as I am, not so quick to judge, then eventually you too could become as much as a spritual warrior as I am trying to be and maybe even better than I, which is not an easy thing to do.

This is my challange to you and anyone else that questions the authenticity of the Bible. (I did not say religion).
It will shed new insight into old philosophies making them totaly obsolete.

Are you up for the challange?


MV*/

[NeoTifa]

Now that I can see them: zombie Jesus is fucking awesome!!!!

[mostyfriedman]

no offense but the bible is full of innumerable contradictions and scientific errors, i dont wanna start this debate though because i know that it will never end, and the bible maybe a complete book for christians but for others it is a work of fiction.