[baavgai]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 10:38 PM, said:

I still don't get how the fact that even though God will forgive all your sins, you don't get to do any of that stuff without "offending God"

Well, you're getting an interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation, so confusion is expected. Catholicism has it's own set of rules on top of the base set that have grown up over millennia. Here's a fun game; ask a Catholic what happens when you die. If they say something like "go to Heaven" then they weren't paying attention.

Most people don't understand the basic principals of their own faith, they just pick and choose the stuff they want to hear. Arm yourself with knowledge, it makes the arguments more fun.

The short version, God was offended by Adam, who broke the only rule he was given and basically broke paradise. God was going to just scrap the who Universe, because it was busted, through Original Sin. In His compassion, He decided to give His favorite creation (us) a chance to redeem itself. So, Man is tasked with following the rules of God so he will get to be reborn in the perfect creation devoid of flaw, like original sin. The big reset button is called Judgment Day.

The rub, of course, is what constitutes following the rules. For some, just following the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) and kissing a little divine butt is enough. For others, it's far more complex (only fish on Friday? huh?)

KYA, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 10:47 PM, said:

I heard the CS Lewis originally set out to disprove Christianity, ended up being one and wrote the Narnia books.

Not quite, more his faith lapsed.

C.S. Lewis was an exceptional advocate for the church, both because he was brilliant and because he drifted away and came back as a convert. He was talked back by a bunch of Oxford alum. Ain't no one is as sincere as a convert.

He stated unequivocally that Narnia was not meant to push a Christian agenda. While it's impossible not to note the Christian allegory in the books, if you're not looking for, they're just kid's books. When Lewis means to write about religion, it's pretty obvious. "The Great Divorce", btw, is quite interesting.

[Nikhil_07n]

I don't follow any religion.
I know only one fact...

"I live on this planet Earth...."

[computerfox]

i don't agree with the reason why your friend isn't allowed to watch a movie. that sounds like something either a baptist or extremist would say. watching a movie doesn't mean that you would loose your faith. whoever says something like that is obviously unstable in their belief. that's my 2.5 cents.

[firebolt]

hawkysu, on 4 Apr, 2009 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.


--Hawk

Christians CAN watch these movies but they have to be careful not to interpret it the wrong way. Also the Golden compass had a bad ending (i reckon)

[timothybrown]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

I live in South Carolina, which is around the center of the Bible Belt - and there are churches on every street, every quarter mile - of every denomination you can think of. Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist... and especially the infamous Baptist church.

I myself am a secular humanist. I keep to myself my lack of religion, however those few I have told went and told the rest of my school, who send church groups to my house every so often to try and bring me back to church/youth groups.

What they think, is that it was a decision I made overnight - when in reality, it took me over three years to drop religion. I definitely do not plan coming back.

Those who claim to have been "atheist" and then go back to Christianity were never actually atheist in my opinion, they just went around bragging about not having a belief in god when they were actually weak agnostics, and all it took to them was just a bit of fire and brimstone teaching to get them back into the Bible and the rest of the fairy tales that go with it.

[KYA]

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

That's not true. People make it their mission, but it is not a tenet of Christianity.

[hawkysu]

firebolt, on 7 Apr, 2009 - 01:28 AM, said:

hawkysu, on 4 Apr, 2009 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.


--Hawk

Christians CAN watch these movies but they have to be careful not to interpret it the wrong way. Also the Golden compass had a bad ending (i reckon)

Ok, In that case, i believe my friends mom just didn't want her to see the movie.


I still haven't seen the movie btw either... I just don't have time now

This post has been edited by hawkysu: 08 April 2009 - 02:22 PM

[supersloth]

KYA, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Most religions say basically the same stuff, don't screw with other people, don't be an asshole, here's were the Universe came from, here's your role in it.

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

That's not true. People make it their mission, but it is not a tenet of Christianity.

KYA's right, that's what many churches (not all, or even a majority do), but it's not part of the religion.

[NeoTifa]

Quote

Christians believe that God is an immortal, all powerful, undying fixture in the universe. The one constant that will never die.

I didn't read the rest of this thread. "God" will never die as long as there are Christians. Christians created him, and as long as there are Christians, "God" will always exist in the minds of people who remember. Maybe that's why people are so panicky against the "infedel".

Really, all religion really is is an elaborate story created by someone, usually power-hungry usurperers or con-artists who feed off the fear and misfortune of the ignorant general public, for the sole purpose of giving people a code of ethics, standards, morals, culture, and routine. Many leaders used religion to brainwash people into worshipping them, like saying that the emporor/king/pharoh was the decendant of "God"/"The Gods".

Also, hope. Hope that the leaders/clergy will protect them from a natural disaster or disease. The people look up to them for the answers to their questions. That means the leaders/clergy are in power. They are playing on peoples emotions and fears, and are controlling them ruthlessly for personal gain. This is the beginning though. Some religions evolve, and people want to join the clergy to bring joy and happiness, not for personal gain. They are really just spreading their own brainwashed views onto other people.

Striking the "Fear if God" into peoples hearts prevents them from doing what the government, whatever form that may take, thinks is wrong. Look at every religion/cult you've ever seen/heard of. If you've ever watched Apocalypto, you know that the one Mayan tribe used to do ritualistic sacrifices to appease the Gods. Many African countries do this still. In Christianity, it's considered wrong to murder.

What makes one more right than the other? They both are religions contrived to make the people have something to look up to, and to base thier daily lives off of. Each set of people are only following a religion. Why would one be wrong? This is why religion wars are stupid.

This post has been edited by NeoTifa: 09 April 2009 - 07:43 AM

[CodeWomanSRQ]

hawkysu, on 3 Apr, 2009 - 02:50 PM, said:

This is not about which religion is superior. This is about a problem i see with religion and why i am agnostic:
My friends can't see the movie: The golden compass because it is against God.
However, if God is all forgiving, then can't he forgive the fact you say such a movie?
And if he controls our destiny, then why did he have someone write such a book? And somone who would turn such a book into a movie?
For that matter, why would he create terrorist and people who fight wars? Especially since no war has ever been fought over religion... except most of them.
Also Why are people afraid to sin if God can just wipe it all away?

Apparently, i just don't understand.



--Hawk

Quote

Dear Hawk,

As a Christian, I would see the movie and make comparisons.

My belief is that God gives us free will. We choose whether to use it to commit good and evil acts. He always forgives us if we ask him sincerely. I also believe that when we sin we lose out on blessings on earth and in heaven and will suffer earthly consequences. i.e. I smoke cigarettes. As a Christian, I should not do this. I may get lung cancer as the consequence of this sin.

Agnostic means "not sure" and its good to question things and not accept things blindly. On a higher level, faith requires a testing of one's life and surrendering to a higher power when one feels powerless. When one receives an answer, knowing it is an answer to prayer, one's faith is strengthened. I cannot scientifically explain that because it's in a supernatural realm.

I used to be Catholic but never felt my sins were forgiven. I was told if I missed church on Sunday, and didn't confess with a priest and I died the next day, for example, that I would go to Hell. To me, my God, is a loving God. If I could save myself by going to confession with a priest, then why would Christ die on the cross for me?

I want to serve Him not because I have to or out of fear, but because of all the things he has done in my life and because of my love for him. I believe that once someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, they cannot lose their salvation but if and when they sin (cuz we all do) can lose out on the blessings both in heaven (someday) and on earth as well as suffer consequences of that sin. Usually, once someone lets Christ into their heart and life, the old patterns of sin start to die. It is a work in progress. Believe me, I still have lots of struggles.

Ok, I am rambling. Just a different perspective on your question. Hope this helps. : )

Later.

]

This post has been edited by CodeWomanSRQ: 09 April 2009 - 08:07 AM

[baavgai]

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 01:49 PM, said:

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

You misquoted my post and then didn't bother reading it.

The point is, the modern interpretors of a given religion set the tone. The foundation that gets the ball rolling is usually pretty sane. However, once the thing starts to move it falls prey to the worst ( and hopefully the best ) of human nature. It's people, politics, agenda, assholes, etc, that make for the worst of religion. It's not the teaching of their faith, but their own misanthropic view of the world that twists that religion to it's own ends.

You wouldn't know Islam is basically peaceful, given some of the more extremist people claiming to follow it. It's impossible to believe the Christian haters are following a gospel of acceptance and turning the other cheek. It's people that make religion insufferable, not the other way around.

[CodeWomanSRQ]

[quote name='baavgai' date='9 Apr, 2009 - 06:54 AM' post='599811']

timothybrown, on 8 Apr, 2009 - 01:49 PM, said:

This is true, however all religions (especially Christianity and Islam) take it as a personal mission of theirs to force beliefs down others throats.

Quote

Their are two things that draw people away from God: Religion and the World. I like to say I have a relationship with Christ. A Christian is a better witness by their actions - love, forgiveness, joy, kindness...fruits of the Holy Spirit. I prefer to plant a seed than to throw the entire forest at someone like some Christians do. I would be offended and pissed off too!! But we are not all the same.

It's ok to agree to disagree. I believe that if I plant a seed, God will try to develop it but if the person resists, then the seed dies (poor soil) or if another person can take away that seed (bird stealing seed). Anyway, there are parables in the Gospel about this.

[NeoTifa]

Why are there a bunch of n00b's quoting and not responding to said quotes? XD

[baavgai]

NeoTifa, on 9 Apr, 2009 - 09:17 AM, said:

Why are there a bunch of n00b's quoting and not responding to said quotes? XD

Religion. People come out of the wood work. All it takes is a mustard seed of effort...

[timothybrown]

The thing most people don't realize, is that no one ever goes into a Christian church and agrees with absolutely everything the preacher says - either that, or they end up interpreting it a different way than was intended.

You can literally walk up to a Christian, ask them what their beliefs are, and they will tell you give you a fairly short perspective on what they believe. Then you can turn around, ask another Christian, and they will have a completely different set of beliefs - and some times they can even be from the same denomination.

Some Christians don't believe in hell, while others believe 99% of people will go to hell. Some Christians believe in evolution, some [insane] Christians believe in absolute Creationism, and believe it is just as valid as evolution, moreso.

You are just as likely to find two Christians who interpret the bible in the same way as you are to find two snow flakes of the same design.

By theory, there should only be one way to get to "heaven" in the Christian mind, and that way is of course, pertaining to their set of beliefs. Hence all the hundreds (possibly thousands) of denominations of the Christian religion.

According to this fact, only about a couple thousand people will get to "heaven", in theory.

I choose to stay out of this silliness altogether and believe in nothing, and enjoy my life and nature while it lasts, instead of worrying over who is right, wrong, and just plain retarded.

This post has been edited by timothybrown: 09 April 2009 - 11:11 AM